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Increasing Speed for 13 mile run length
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How do you guys and gals increase your running speed, for distances in the teens, in miles.

About every three or four days, I alternate running a slow, 60% MHR, for 14 or so miles, which equates to a 9, to 9.5 minute mile, very slow. On the other running day, going hard: I try to run as hard as I can for 3 -4 miles on a high school track. I can do, like a 7:40 mile on the first mile, the next two right under 8. I can almost do the 4th mile under 8. I try to add one more mile to that speed day, every 2 weeks, where I can do, say 4 miles, all under 8, and then maybe in 2 weeks, get up to five straight miles, under 8 minutes. I don't even look at my heart rate monitor during the sprinting because I'm not much off 5 or 8 beats from max during these maximum 30 minute ordeals. I dread the days those sessions come up. This afternoon is one of them, and it's windy outside, and I really don't want to go through with it. They are so painful. But I guess I will.

Is this how people try to get faster, by incrementally adding that extra distance into the assbuster speed work day, and build it up like swimming intervals?

A friend of mine is an ultramarathoner and he said the best way to develop speed is to first develop a comfort level at the distance you want to go and keep adding distance, and, in the middle of the long runs, start hauling ass for one of the miles, in the middle of it, or run hard every third mile, jog, and so on, like that. Yet another friend of mine says that's bunk, what you should do is run 800s, as fast as you can. Walk a lap, run another 800.
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Re: Increasing Speed for 13 mile run length [boothrand] [ In reply to ]
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Booth-

First I think both of your friends suggestions and your current method are all good ways to build speed. I would just suggest that you add one more.....tempo runs.

One of the local run groups around here has the road marked at mile intervals. You pick a pace a bit faster than your current long race speed and sit on it mile to mile. This is much easier with people to run with pushing you and would be unbearable for me on a track. There's an article on tempo runs in this months Runner's World that goes into more detail on method and why they are so helpful.

I have also been signing up for every half marathon in my area and getting used to the distance. They are getting way easier just because I am running more of them. I took over 20 seconds off my mile splits over the course of the past few months. I've been neglecting my swimming a bit though......
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Re: Increasing Speed for 13 mile run length [boothrand] [ In reply to ]
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jsut some suggestions,

since you can't maintain the pace on those 3-4 milers and you dread them, don't do them. i think you are better off starting with 800s the going to mile in a few weeks as intervals. try to do the halfs in 3:45 walk or stretch for 2 min and do another. only keep doing them as long as you can stay below 10 secs slower than the first one (up to about 10). then do a cool down and quit. you should feel good when you are done. this is a light day. if at first you only do 5 then you will be done in 35min, not counting the warm up and cool down. about 1 mile at 10 min, each. it's ok to take a little longer rest if you don't feel ready. when you can do 8-10 comfortably (you are not dead at the end and feel good an hour after the workout) replace the middle 2 with 1 milers. you should be able to do 7:30 with 3:00 or 4;00 rest after each. when comfortable replace 2 more. when you are doing all 8 in milers and finishing them with in 10secs of eachother - stay there - get faster but don't shorten the rest. rest 3 or 4 (pick one and stay with it), just don't go any slower than 10secs from the first one. this is interval day, it should feel fast and good. don't forget to do at least a 1 mile warm up and cool down.

another day do the long slow one you mention. it should start to get faster at the same HR with the interval workouts.

another day do the 2-4 milers (preferable not on a track) as part of a run. but do them at about the 80-85% range (8:30 maybe?). try 1 mile very easy, 2 miles at 85%, 2 miles easy (60%), 2 miles at 85%, 1 mile very easy. eventualy increase the hard ones to 3 then 4 then 5 miles. reducing the middle one to 1 mile. when this is comfortable alternate it with a 1 mile warm up 6-8 miles at 85% and 1 mile cool down. you can do these based on time rather than distance if you don't have a measured course. 10/17/20/17/10 = 1hr 14min

2 other days do 4-7 miles at about 75%. start slown, relax, enjoy the run.

take 2 days rest.

you can improve by going fast as you can and adding distance.

you can improve by going the distance and trying to do it faster each time.

or

you can improve faster by mixing it up. Endurance / Tempo / Sprint / Recovery

JMHO, good luck

______________________________________
"Competetive sport begins where healthy sport ends"
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Re: Increasing Speed for 13 mile run length [boothrand] [ In reply to ]
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You run every 3-4 days? So you are running 2x/week? One long slow and one at a track where you run 4 miles as fast as you can? Do I have all that right? I'll assume this is the case.....

If you want to run faster for a 1/2 marathon - you need to run a fair amount. Runnersworld.com has some great articles on training - check it out. You need to run more frequently and build up your miles. I think mileage is super important for almost all of us (just build slowly).

I like the long slow run - but the track run doesn't fit into a category...too fast for a tempo run - too long for intervals - plus you hate it. You won't persist/improve if you do not enjoy it. Remember - we should be working out to improve our fitness/health/happiness....

Build to running at least 4x/week. Run lots of miles. Consider hills, tempo runs, intervals at various times. Build a plan - follow it. Read a lot. Try different things.....lots of info out there including some good plans to running fast 1/2 marathons - foolow one.

David
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Re: Increasing Speed for 13 mile run length [boothrand] [ In reply to ]
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Get the book Running formula by Dr. Jack Daniels..... It will answer all your questions........
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Re: Increasing Speed for 13 mile run length [boothrand] [ In reply to ]
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The thing that worked well for me is 1200s on the track. If you have an HRM, shoot for 2-3 bpm above threshold. Perceived exertion should be a step or two below flat out. If you're just using a watch, it should be a little faster than 10K race pace. The second and third laps should hurt.

Get to the point where you're doing somewhere between 8 and 12 of them. Rest:Run ratio of maybe 2:3 (i.e. if you run them in 4:30, rest 3:00 between each). The yasso (sp?) 800's you're talking about are similar and good too but IMHO a little longer effort is better and the real rest (as opposed to walking) lets you do them at a little faster pace and really focus on each one which is good too.



________________________________________________

Anyone who tells you they're as fast now as they were when they were 18...
sure wasn't very fast when they were 18.
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Re: Increasing Speed for 13 mile run length [overman] [ In reply to ]
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I tried the energy drink the good doctor produces...and I can never remember my training runs.
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He's not kidding about that guy [ In reply to ]
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Jack Daniels Offers Sound Advice

Published September 13, 1999 in The Post-Standard.

By Dr Kamal Jabbour, Contributing Writer

Dr. Jack Daniels is arguably the world's leading authority on the application of exercise physiology to training distance runners. A professor and coach at the State University of New York in Cortland, Daniels spent the past thirty years testing elite runners and applying his findings to training champions.

A two-time Olympian and medalist in the modern pentathlon, Daniels turned his attention from competition to research in the early sixties. In the years that followed, he worked with a number of elite athletes, from milers Jim Ruyn and Mary Slaney, to marathoners Joan Benoit and Jerry Lawson. He applied his findings into a successful training system at Cortland, credited with 8 national team championships, 25 individual titles and 110 All-America runners.

Daniels published numerous articles and books on physiology and running. His latest book, "Daniels' Running Formula", promises a complete program for training and racing, and provides detailed tables and programs. In its preface, Daniels casually mentions that this book contains the results of his lifelong search for sound training principles.

The simplicity of the guidelines and the apparent ease of the training schedules are deceiving at first look. Many running books advocate higher mileage, faster intervals, more repeats and shorter recoveries than Daniels'.

My skepticism quickly changed into awe as I witnessed the transformation of Daniels' followers. For example, Patti Ford, of Pompey, adopted Daniels' schedule to change the monotony in her training and lower her risk of injury. The apparent ease of the training reaped the benefits of its specificity. At age 43, Ford ran the fastest races of her life, with two national masters records and championships.

According to Daniels, success consists of four ingredients. Inherent ability depends on our genetic makeup and talent. Motivation refers to our inner desire to use that talent. Opportunity includes hindering and facilitating factors in our environment. Finally, direction recognizes a coach's influence on an athlete.

It is in his capacity as coach that Daniels provides guidance and direction in his latest book. Qualitatively, he offers ten general training principles on which he bases his training and racing programs. Quantitatively, he uses the maximum rate of oxygen consumption, or VDOT, as the key to identifying ability and setting the starting point for training.

Through detailed tables and formulas, Daniels presents runners an easy way to estimate their current VDOT. From a value of 30 for 30-minute 5K runners to 85 for 2-hour marathon runners, an athlete's VDOT is his ticket to the pacing schedules that make up the heart of the book.

A firm believer in the specificity of training, Daniels defines four acceptable running paces, making up the acronym RITE. "R" refers to repetitions, run at a pace faster than that of a 5K race. "I" refers to intervals, run hard at 5K race pace. "T" refers to threshold or tempo runs at a comfortably hard pace of about 87 percent of 5K race pace. Finally, "E" refers to easy recovery runs at a pace slower than marathon pace.

Thus, the VDOT value for each runner defines the RITE paces at which all workouts must be run. Daniels cautions against running "quality-junk" miles. This term refers to a running pace that is falls between two levels, and is therefore too slow to achieve the desired effect of the upper level, yet too fast for the lower level.

The book concludes with a four-phase program, six weeks per phase, for a total of 24 weeks. Phase 1 consists of E-type easy running, focusing on foundation work and injury prevention. Phase 2 continues to increase mileage and estimates VDOT with a T-type race. Phase 3 is the hardest part of the program, introducing I-type interval training and R-type racing to determine the current VDOT. Finally, Phase 4 highlights adequate rest and recovery, a drop in total mileage, and sharpening towards a target race.

Jack Daniels' Running Formula is possibly the best training program ever developed, benefiting weekend racers and elite athletes alike, as evidenced by the millions of personal records and tens of national records to his credit.
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Re: Increasing Speed for 13 mile run length [boothrand] [ In reply to ]
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Hello there,

I think I've passed on the following advice before, but now I have a little more personal info to back it up.

1. Don't do speedwork! Most people don't have a big enough aerobic base to justify the beating their bodies take from speedwork. I used to run hard all the time and just didn't improve that much. Since Dec. 1, I have run nearly 800 miles and during that time I have run faster than 6:30 miles on about five occasions. One was a PR Half-marathon run at 5:39 pace. You must become aerobically efficient first, or your speedwork actually hurts your overall development. Read the article by Mark Allen in the Inside Triathlon New year guide and see how he describes the base building phase.

2. Run more miles. Build slowly, be patient, but keep churning out lots of miles in your high (70-80 percent mhr) range. I can now run faster 10Ks off the bike than I used to run in open races. All without speed and a steady, large diet of aerobic miles.

3. Run more miles. When a race lasts longer than you can sprint then your aerobic engine is going to get you to the line fastest. Steve Ovett, a world record holder in the mile, ran 135 miles a week. For a 3 min 48 second race.

4. Don't do speedwork! Ok, I said this already, but except a month or six weeks out from one of you A races, there just is no need, and you will avoid injury breaks much better.

It's all about the biology of oxygen consumption.

Chad
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Re: Increasing Speed for 13 mile run length [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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I'll second a few things, its about the miles. If your not running a fair bit for a fair amounb of time your not getting faster. Get the daniels book. read it and run it. I know several of the recent olympic trial runners who follow the book.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Last edited by: desert dude: Mar 10, 04 20:11
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