Haven't seen them in person. They are supposed to be more springy/bouncy than the novablast

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

This sort of lines up with my A/B testing.

0x: control shoe
1x: Adidas Adios 6
2x: Hoka, Adidas Takumi Sen
3x: Nike Next%, Adidas Adios Pro, Saucony Endorphin Pro
4x: Nike Alphafly

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

My current rotation is Novablast2, Novablast3, and Superblast. The 2 you sink into, very spongy, very safe, but an energy suck, and no bounce. The 3 is firmer but still a little sink in, some energy suck, and some nice bounce. The SB has very little sink in, and tons of bounce and sweet energy return. For a senior athlete, with aching old bones, the 2 is not a race shoe, but nice long trainer. The 3 is a great trainer, but could be a safe race shoe. The SB will be my race shoe this season. I feel like I could let loose in it, without worrying about getting hurt. I’ve already done several long runs in it, with no issues. I’ll be using it for a BQ attempt this fall. Time will tell, but if it lasts, it has all the makings of the best shoe I’ve ran in, in the last 40 years.

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Athlinks / Strava

This might be the report to which you were referring. It's only a single study, but it's worth considering. As you mention, a portion of the participants in the study who ran around 9:40/ mile actually got slower in super shoes. The take-away advice of the article is that you should choose the shoe that provides the most comfort and confidence, regardless of its foam or whether it has a carbon plate. The super shoes definitely work for most of us, but they may not be for everyone.

Super Shoes Performance Effect - How Well Do They Work for All Runners? (runnersworld.com)

Dude -- that did help. If I read the article correctly, the 5 negative responders were all in the 10kph test (and I assume their numbers were included in the average of the 10kph test). I assume there was pretty much variability in the results among the runners, but all positive results for the 12kph group.

Based on this I am going to try a pair of super shoes. But the study methodology is interesting. It put the runners on a treadmill at the designated pace and measured their use of oxygen. With the shoes, the 12kph group averaged using 1.5 % less oxygen. If it is right to just apply the 1.5% to the pace to see the impact if the runner holds the effort steady instead of the pace, I get about a 7 second per mile difference at the 12kph. MMMV (My Mileage May Vary)!

No opinion to offer - just going to point out that the Nike website currently has VF2s on sale.

As a middle-aged, mediocre runner, I use these type of shoes for both hard training sessions and races. Not because they will make me more competitive (though I don't mind a few sec here or there), but mostly because they reduce the negative impact of hard speedwork. My knees and hips don't feel as beat up when I train in these shoes, which makes further training and just day to day life in general much better.

I have been using the VF Next and then VF2 for the last few years with most of my training in Zoom Flys. My theory at the time was to train with a carbon plate to more closely mimic the VF without the ZoomX foam. Reading this thread and a few others I think that might not be the best; I have had more running injuries in the last few years (after about 2 years switching to Zoom Fly/ VF ). I was interested in trying something new anyway.

When I run in all the shoes I can remember there is barely any noise in my foot fall, with both the VF Next% and VF 2 there is quite a bit of noise in my foot fall. It doesn't matter what speed. It makes me think this may not be the shoe for me. That and its a pain to get it on in T2 with the offset tongue.

If I were going to try the Metaspeed Sky as a race day shoe what is the recommended training shoe without a carbon plate to pair, I don't really know the Asics line up. Just trying to gain a little intel before going to the running store.

Just turned 65 and have been using super shoes for almost three years, ran 1:21 half marathon last year and 18:24 5K this year. Nike Vaporfly and Alphafly had the edge until this past year, others are now catching up. The Saucony Endorphin Pro was a distant second a year or two ago, now they have the Saucony Endorphin Elite which is getting good reviews. New Balance Fuel Cell SuperComp is also in the same ballpark.

Unless you have some real biomechanical issues, I wouldn't worry about that too much. However, the Alphafly is said to be less stable, and initial reports on the Endorphin Elite are similar. I have run everything from a track 1500 to marathon in Endorphin Pros and Vaporflys and may be a moderate responder. I think runners who run with an already bouncy stride, or those who hit kind of heavy seem to get the most benefit. I also train 2-3X a week in the Saucony Endorphin Speed, and they are great for long runs and tempos.

hugoagogo wrote:

Are super shoes tuned for athletes that run at particuar paces. Specifically for me, I have a permanent affliction (old age) that caps my run pace (low 7:00s for stand alone 10k/ high 7:00s for run in standard distance tri). In my age group, a few seconds per mile is still important to me. I've been devoted to Hoka since a couple of age groups ago -- I can run injury free! I currently race in the Carbon X 2 (not a super shoe in performance or cost), but Hoka now has a Rocket X 2 ( may be a super shoe and does cost like one). How do I figure out if the extra $$$ will help? 10k is about my max distance right now if that matters.

I did not read this whole thread and I did not listen to this podcast yet. But I saw this

Dr. Dustin Joubert discusses new research on the effect carbon fibre plated "super shoes" have at slower speeds and how it differs from at faster speeds

https://scientifictriathlon.com/tts383/

I'm 56 (70kg) and run in super shoes full time (2-3h/wk, a bit more when in season). I initially got the AlphaFly's for performance, but was amazed how joint friendly they were with enhanced recovery due to less impact. I get about 500 miles on a pair - they keep most of their magic for 300 and then are just fine for training up to ~500. Not fond of the AF2's and just got the new Hoka super shoe and it's nice. I'm a big fan as an aging athlete more from a preventative health aspect related to orthopedics and playing the long game. The performance benefit is nice as well, but I have established a new normal for myself. I appreciate the evolving tech in the space - and they make running more enjoyable.