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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
I actually think the race streaming will always have to be the way the go. Take the Olympics for example, EVERY event that is "contained" in an gym / arena / field of play you have to PAY to watch. Triathlon being over 5-10km of roads, even if you required to pay for finish line, you would lose out on tons of people who just line the course. Triathlon will never really be able to capitalize with "paying customers". It will almost have to be a broadcast product. I mean yes places like SL that's done in a 2 block radius coud likely have some "on site" pay to watch, but even events like ITU you have paid VIP and then 50 feet away people are watching for free.

Good points. Same scenario as marathons. No one will pay to watch marathon, but they will pay to watch track meets and swim meets, because the event is contained in a defined area.
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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Their value, IMO, is not in age-group race production at all.

It's creating wholly-owned media content to be consumed across a distribution network.

Them partnering with existing "big" events for producing their moneymaking content (which, to be clear, they still have some work to do on that front to match the production that CLASH has) is a much smarter approach, IMO, than it is trying to create everything from scratch.

The problem they'll have is finding willing partners to give up their own media rights in order to be able to do so. Probably means they won't ever be aligned with IRONMAN. USAT AG Nationals was a smart one -- USAT keeps the AG media rights, gets to put its name up there with the PTO, PTO owns all its own content. Who and where else they can manage to get that kind of thing together will be the critical component. I think Canada is one and done unless they link up with something larger to happen in either Edmonton or another city.

And the Collins Cup still needs a format change in order to make the broadcast easier to follow.

How many amateur only triathlons have ever been broadcast? Norseman? Can't be more than one per year. I would say USAT AG Nats has no media rights. And PTO doesn't really add any value to AG Nats as a race. It's like a cute addition, but we'll see if it actually does what they want which is to create a crowd on broadcast to make it seem like people are into triathlon.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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It’s going to struggle to keep athletes to stay and watch and create an “on site” environment. I actually bet the biggest spectator numbers will be the juniors who will be acting like fun fools to get on camera (like what the male pros did to the female pros starting in PTO Can). Especially after Friday AM when the juniors race for individual titles. Sat the relay will be much more fun and laid back for them so they’ll likely be game to support both Fri and Sat broadcast events if that’s the schedule.

The sport put an DL super sprint similar to SL like 7 years ago in Milwaukee. It was telecasted I think on FB live and had very little “fan fare”.

On site fan fair just is always going to suck for any type of triathlon outside DL that races 10 times in front of you in an hour time period. Seeing athletes 3 times in an hour just doesn’t cut it to create on site fan fare. That’s not an PTO problem.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Collegiate Club Nats MTR probably is the one thing that would provide an atmosphere for a broadcast.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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Yes which if you listen to Tim Yount speak on events, collegiate club is the “best” event they put on in terms of atmosphere. Too bad the timing of their event has to be so early in the year, but it’s limited to the uni exam schedule obviously.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [Durhamskier] [ In reply to ]
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Durhamskier wrote:
Sub17Project wrote:
So Winnipeg wasn't available as an alternate venue?


I once entered a contest and first prize was an all expenses paid trip to Winnipeg for a weekend. Second prize was an all expenses paid trip to Winnipeg for a week.

I just want to say that this made my tea travel through my nose.

Carry on.

I only swim.
I used to run. (31:09 10k)
I never did Triathlon.
Sue me.
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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [Changpao] [ In reply to ]
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I heard the locals in Kona did not want it
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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
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Tribike53 wrote:
asianzone wrote:
The tried and tested model for triathlon has always been

- Entry fees (participation at scale)
- Merchandize (create a following and it's an easy sell)
- Sponsorship
- Broadcast advertising dollars

IM has executed flawlessly in the first three but not the last one. The challenge is that I doubt triathlon will get the mass following that PTO aspires it to get and broadcasters paying millions for its content or advertizing dollars. I bet that IM has tried to enhance this model but 3-4 hour races are not very consumable in general to attract a large viewing audience

PTO really has zero revenue recognition from Sept 22 to probably Aug 23. Imagine, having a business model built around that


Just a datapoint on the merchandise (item 2 above). At an ironman race the merch tent is a huge covered store with a plethora of gear choices. I’m almost certain that at all races participants are forced through it to enter the village and pickup your packet.

At PTO Dallas the merch tent was a tiny booth that was maybe 10x10 (ft) with a t shirt and a few hoodies and jackets (which at Dallas was insane because it was 100 deg). It was kind of near packet pickup but easily missed by most people there as just another sponsor tent.

that's a mistake on PTO's part, for sure. ideally with the US open going off alongside the national age-group champs, they'll really pound on merch this year. imagine having a ton of the best age groupers in the USA plus their friends/families hanging around for a weekend. THAT'S when you start making thousands selling lionel sanders t-shirts and lucy charles beach towels or whatever. start shipping that stuff, PTO!

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Heck to the yes on Collegiate Club Nationals. I did it twice when it was at Clemson and the atmosphere was amazing. Tons of on course fanfare, college teams screaming their heads off, doing their team chants, all topped off with the MTR which is just an hour of insanity starting before the gun even goes off. Totally made up for the fact that the course sucked out loud; should've been called Collegiate Dead Turn Nationals.
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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [CheesyConey] [ In reply to ]
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Go look up ITU Grand Final Chicago in 2015 lol.

48 dead turns in a 40km bike, that course sucked.

But yes Clemson was a rough DL event cus the main bike segment was 1.5mi from the transition so a lot of people didn’t even watch the individual bike leg beyond seeing them start and finish in T area.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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I think Guelph would be a decent spot for this race. The lake and surrounding area is just outside of town, but rural enough that road closures, etc. would not be a big deal.

The University has held lots of championship XC races, and there are two triathlons already held there during the summer so the city isn't unfamiliar with events of this size.

It's very close to the "International" airport and to Toronto (for spectators, etc). Lot's of housing in the dorms for athletes depending on the date.
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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
Tribike53 wrote:
asianzone wrote:
The tried and tested model for triathlon has always been

- Entry fees (participation at scale)
- Merchandize (create a following and it's an easy sell)
- Sponsorship
- Broadcast advertising dollars

IM has executed flawlessly in the first three but not the last one. The challenge is that I doubt triathlon will get the mass following that PTO aspires it to get and broadcasters paying millions for its content or advertizing dollars. I bet that IM has tried to enhance this model but 3-4 hour races are not very consumable in general to attract a large viewing audience

PTO really has zero revenue recognition from Sept 22 to probably Aug 23. Imagine, having a business model built around that


Just a datapoint on the merchandise (item 2 above). At an ironman race the merch tent is a huge covered store with a plethora of gear choices. I’m almost certain that at all races participants are forced through it to enter the village and pickup your packet.

At PTO Dallas the merch tent was a tiny booth that was maybe 10x10 (ft) with a t shirt and a few hoodies and jackets (which at Dallas was insane because it was 100 deg). It was kind of near packet pickup but easily missed by most people there as just another sponsor tent.

that's a mistake on PTO's part, for sure. ideally with the US open going off alongside the national age-group champs, they'll really pound on merch this year. imagine having a ton of the best age groupers in the USA plus their friends/families hanging around for a weekend. THAT'S when you start making thousands selling lionel sanders t-shirts and lucy charles beach towels or whatever. start shipping that stuff, PTO!

This makes a lot of sense. (by the way in a previous post I called it that running the event parallel with AG Nats is a good option).
PTO should should sell PTO stuff, but sell Lucy Charles and Lionel Sanders etc branded stuff and the rights for PTO to sell that stuff is transferred to the PTO when you start collecting a PTO paycheck. That would likely interfere with their endorsement contracts so they'd have to decide what's more important. But the biggest asset the PTO has, and what they say they are selling and promoting is the pro athletes. They should be doing autograph signings, merch sales, etc.
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Re: PTO Canadian Open Cancelled for 2023 [Lurker4] [ In reply to ]
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Lurker4 wrote:
iron_mike wrote:
Tribike53 wrote:
asianzone wrote:
The tried and tested model for triathlon has always been

- Entry fees (participation at scale)
- Merchandize (create a following and it's an easy sell)
- Sponsorship
- Broadcast advertising dollars

IM has executed flawlessly in the first three but not the last one. The challenge is that I doubt triathlon will get the mass following that PTO aspires it to get and broadcasters paying millions for its content or advertizing dollars. I bet that IM has tried to enhance this model but 3-4 hour races are not very consumable in general to attract a large viewing audience

PTO really has zero revenue recognition from Sept 22 to probably Aug 23. Imagine, having a business model built around that


Just a datapoint on the merchandise (item 2 above). At an ironman race the merch tent is a huge covered store with a plethora of gear choices. I’m almost certain that at all races participants are forced through it to enter the village and pickup your packet.

At PTO Dallas the merch tent was a tiny booth that was maybe 10x10 (ft) with a t shirt and a few hoodies and jackets (which at Dallas was insane because it was 100 deg). It was kind of near packet pickup but easily missed by most people there as just another sponsor tent.

that's a mistake on PTO's part, for sure. ideally with the US open going off alongside the national age-group champs, they'll really pound on merch this year. imagine having a ton of the best age groupers in the USA plus their friends/families hanging around for a weekend. THAT'S when you start making thousands selling lionel sanders t-shirts and lucy charles beach towels or whatever. start shipping that stuff, PTO!

This makes a lot of sense. (by the way in a previous post I called it that running the event parallel with AG Nats is a good option).
PTO should should sell PTO stuff, but sell Lucy Charles and Lionel Sanders etc branded stuff and the rights for PTO to sell that stuff is transferred to the PTO when you start collecting a PTO paycheck. That would likely interfere with their endorsement contracts so they'd have to decide what's more important. But the biggest asset the PTO has, and what they say they are selling and promoting is the pro athletes. They should be doing autograph signings, merch sales, etc.

For the hundreds hanging about the course? The chosen few pros know exactly how lucky they are to be collecting large winnings for these races and will cherry pick these races because they know that this entire venture is short term. They are not growing it, they are milking it for whatever they can get. No judging.
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