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Is hard efforts at end of Zone 2 training couter-productive?
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I listened to an interview with a coach on GCN about Zone 2. He said that if you do higher zone efforts too long during Zone 2 training, your body may be stuck above Zone 2 for half an hour or more and that is counter productive to getting Zone 2 training and its benefits. He said if you are going to do hard efforts in a Zone 2 work out, do them in the end.

I am wondering if it may be counter productive to do hard efforts at anytime during the session. If you get pushed to Zone 4 at the end and your body stays there after the workout for a while, will it be recovering with Zone 4 demands, or do you get the benefit of both adaptations, Zone 2 and Zone 4.?
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Re: Is hard efforts at end of Zone 2 training couter-productive? [eddoes3] [ In reply to ]
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eddoes3 wrote:
I listened to an interview with a coach on GCN about Zone 2. He said that if you do higher zone efforts too long during Zone 2 training, your body may be stuck above Zone 2 for half an hour or more and that is counter productive to getting Zone 2 training and its benefits. He said if you are going to do hard efforts in a Zone 2 work out, do them in the end.

I am wondering if it may be counter productive to do hard efforts at anytime during the session. If you get pushed to Zone 4 at the end and your body stays there after the workout for a while, will it be recovering with Zone 4 demands, or do you get the benefit of both adaptations, Zone 2 and Zone 4.?

Well that coach is the coach of a 2x Tour de France winner, so I'd go with what he says.
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Re: Is hard efforts at end of Zone 2 training couter-productive? [teichs42] [ In reply to ]
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teichs42 wrote:
eddoes3 wrote:

Well that coach is the coach of a 2x Tour de France winner, so I'd go with what he says.

He says "... if you are going to do Zone 4...". He doesn't answer whether you SHOULD do Zone 4 in a Zone 2 workout. And that is my question-- the "should" question, not the "if" question.
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Re: Is hard efforts at end of Zone 2 training couter-productive? [eddoes3] [ In reply to ]
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Not this crxp again :(

The reason for zone 2 is for the adaptations that are associated with it. There is no voodoo that happens. The time it takes you to bring your power or HR down from 4 to 2 is the only time you'll be adding more stress than you need.

You still get those adaptations in other zones, it just takes longer to recover from them. Then you won't be able to get a much work done on days you are scheduled to ride harder.

Don't schedule zone 4 stuff in a zone 2 ride but if you have to climb a hill for 5 min in zone 4 once or twice, the adaptations from that session are not lost.
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Re: Is hard efforts at end of Zone 2 training couter-productive? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
... The time it takes you to bring your power or HR down from 4 to 2 is the only time you'll be adding more stress than you need...

The coach or research (probably both) wasn't indicating that the power or the HR had to come down from 4 to 2, but the physiology -- i.e., carb burning/lactate burning mode -- that stays turned on. The fatty acid path way is shutdown.

Hmm. Maybe that is why after a Zone 2 workout at night I can go to sleep without eating whereas if I do enough Zone 4 I start getting hungry and have to eat before I can calm down and sleep.
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Re: Is hard efforts at end of Zone 2 training couter-productive? [eddoes3] [ In reply to ]
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I remember studies that said that wasn't true.

It was in the reading that Andy Coggan gave me.

It's also in the Lore of Running from Tim Noakes
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Re: Is hard efforts at end of Zone 2 training couter-productive? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
Not this crxp again :(

The reason for zone 2 is for the adaptations that are associated with it. There is no voodoo that happens. The time it takes you to bring your power or HR down from 4 to 2 is the only time you'll be adding more stress than you need.

You still get those adaptations in other zones, it just takes longer to recover from them. Then you won't be able to get a much work done on days you are scheduled to ride harder.

Don't schedule zone 4 stuff in a zone 2 ride but if you have to climb a hill for 5 min in zone 4 once or twice, the adaptations from that session are not lost.

This is a well summed up version of my understanding as well.

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Re: Is hard efforts at end of Zone 2 training couter-productive? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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well said
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