Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [jens] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Even 17 years ago it was known that tufos are slow.
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [jens] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jens wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
If it makes you feel any better, I also wasted a year of my life racing on tufo.


It is just incredible that a single piece of equipment could have that big an effect on performance -- in my case, roughly 2 minutes on a 40K TT.

MrTri123 wrote:
Please tell us/show is your secrets


1) Fastest clincher tires & latex tubes

2) Correct inflation; even after I switched to good tires, I was riding at 130+psi for years (at 158 lbs). I don't know how much this cost, but it was a probably a lot.

3) Raised bars. For years, I had a 15cm+ drop. Now it's more like 2. Beyond 5 cm, all I was achieving was a higher arch in my back.

4) Got narrow: narrow bottom bracket, narrow cranks, pedals. etc.

5) Got rid of the base bars.

5) The BIG one: Trained with aero discipline. Driving behind me in a follow car a few years after the wind tunnel photos, Cees Beers (aerodynamicist and owner of ADA wheels) observed that I consistently threw one knee far out to the side whenever I pedaled hard. I'll have to dig up a photo of it: it's really quite striking.

Unfortunately, it was only years after that, that (thanks to Robert Chung's famous method) I started to to do regular field tests. That helped me realize that my real riding at full power was nothing like my wind tunnel riding. So I Chung-tested at least every two weeks -- at full race power. The difference between thoughtful, disciplined riding (knees in, head at right angle, etc.) and thoughtless riding is huge. If you train that way for a while, you'll realize that you don't have to sacrifice power (or at least not that much) to maintain the discipline.

Thank you Jens!!!
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [BergHugi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BergHugi wrote:
Even 17 years ago it was known that tufos are slow.

When I complained about them on this forum many years ago, there were still quite a few people who ridiculed me for it and absolutely denied they made a significant difference. I had a long-running dispute with the owner of one bike shop over the issue.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No base bar.

Do you use mantis bars?

Do you still use it out or heavy sworn off them because of the problems with connecting to older stuff?
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MrTri123 wrote:
No base bar.


Do you use mantis bars?

Do you still use it out or heavy sworn off them because of the problems with connecting to older stuff?


I started with a simple "Aero or die" setup, which consisted of a sawed off MTB bar with aero clip-ons. Since then, I've been using these:

https://www.morf-tech.com/


Though I haven't had the guts to try to use them in races where UCI rules are rigidly enforced.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
Last edited by: jens: Jan 23, 23 16:43
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [jens] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Your seat’s too high. /pink
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [jens] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you for the info Jens

Sorry, meant to say, are you using Etap or are you done with that because of their trouble with using old versions with the new stuff?
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MrTri123 wrote:
Thank you for the info Jens

Sorry, meant to say, are you using Etap or are you done with that because of their trouble with using old versions with the new stuff?

I still have 11-speed Etap. I managed to secure a small stock of spares (an extra blip box, etc.). But yeah, if I were to build a new set up, I would avoid SRAM, because of their sleazy planned obsolescence.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [jens] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
For all the hate they get for their tubulars, some of their latest tubeless tires are quite good.
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [jens] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jens wrote:
Lots of good guesses, but no cigar.

1). 320 watts in a hot wind tunnel & 291 watts @ 140 bpm (25 bpm below threshold).

17 years later, that threshold power is more like 235. Aging sucks.

2) 17 years later, I am only a bit slower with 85 watts less power.

That’s good right? Well, no. Just thinking about how things would have gone back then if I had known what I know now (e.g. never, ever use Tufo tubulars) kinda makes me sick. Equipment DOES matter. So does position.

if you could replicate the new position on the old bike, I would be shocked if the drag difference would be greater than 25w
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [jens] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I won a lot of races on Tufo's back in the day.
The great duathlete Benny VanSteelant rode them. ;)
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [jens] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jens wrote:
MrTri123 wrote:
No base bar.


Do you use mantis bars?

Do you still use it out or heavy sworn off them because of the problems with connecting to older stuff?


I started with a simple "Aero or die" setup, which consisted of a sawed off MTB bar with aero clip-ons. Since then, I've been using these:

https://www.morf-tech.com/


Though I haven't had the guts to try to use them in races where UCI rules are rigidly enforced.

Have you done any testing of Morf-Tech compared to a decently designed modern bar? From my (limited) testing the base bar (and grips) don't seem to add that much drag. Of course, I haven't tested with the nice big 'n' chunky modern hydraulic levers.
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [jollyroger88] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jollyroger88 wrote:
if you could replicate the new position on the old bike, I would be shocked if the drag difference would be greater than 25w

Well, I'd did say "a bit slower." Hyperbole perhaps: in numbers, that means 2-3 minutes in a 40K, which seems surprisingly minimal for aging from 43 to 60.

I went from ~.23 to ~.19 CdA. The thing is, the .23 wasn't even a real world number; position sloppiness at full power in races was probably costing another 0.2. The Tufos, with the stupid glue tape, by themselves lost over 15 watts at 25-30 mph. I am not sure what the over-inflation penalty was.

So when you put it all together, I lost ~85 watts in power, but gained back ~60 in aero and CRR improvements.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [jens] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jens wrote:
BergHugi wrote:
Even 17 years ago it was known that tufos are slow.


When I complained about them on this forum many years ago, there were still quite a few people who ridiculed me for it and absolutely denied they made a significant difference. I had a long-running dispute with the owner of one bike shop over the issue.

Tufo's were/are pretty awesome for indoor wooden tracks. I always figured people saw that they were the fastest tire in ideal conditions, so they must be the fastest tire in all conditions.
Quote Reply
Re: Why do these photos make me sad?.... [eblackadder] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
eblackadder wrote:
You wish that tiny silver helmets were still legal and available? That you had thought of painters tape as an aero solution to exposed cables? That it was still 2004 and we could root for Postal? That the San Marco Aspide was still available as a saddle?

Wait? Those helmets aren't legal anymore? I still have one (haven't worn it in a while, though). I thought it was just another one of those "trend things" or that newer helmets are just faster.
Quote Reply

Prev Next