Aero Helmet Questions

Nov 22, 22 16:32

Post #1 of 19 (2138 views)

Going to get a new aero helmet soon. Maybe even a few. In the past I used the old Rudy Syton helmet (without ears), Giro Advantage 2 (with ears), as well as regular Giro road Atmos helmet.

Working on a new tri-position over the winter time. So, yes, I realize that one may be better for a certain position and my body versus another position, etc...

Here are my thoughts as to options I'd consider...

1. Giro Aerohead 2. Rudy Wing (newest version) 3. specialized evade 4. Giro Attack.

Yes, I know the latter two are aero road helmets. I have read numerous reports that Aerohelmets are faster than aero road by about 1 sec a km. Is this ONLY in the WINDTUNNEL? Or, have these tests that we seem to be hearing done in a real world environment - as in, outside when it is in the 80s/90s. Just because the pros race TT Aero and not aero Road helmets doesn't necessarily mean they are faster. I'm really curious as to the real world tests... Does anyone know the protocol for these tests?

Also, if I did get the Aerohead I'd probably never use the visor unless the temperature was just right for it. Which, makes me wonder how aero would it be compared to an Aero Road option. My own experience with the Advantage 2 is that it was hot. So, much so, I wonder if it effected my performance negatively on certain occasions. And, in addition I wish I do look (glance) down often enough at power that I was wondering how aero is it really over the long haul.... As such, I really don't want one with a long tail, which is why I put the Rudy on the list (and it at least has vents).

Yes, I get it I should test - but, I don't have enough time. And, since a lot of claims are potentially biased and/or marketing based, hence these questions.

Thanks for reading.
Chris

Running is the best source of fiber that I know of...

Last edited by: TriChris14: Nov 22, 22 16:33

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [TriChris14] [ In reply to ]

Nov 22, 22 18:19

Post #2 of 19 (2097 views)

Smith Jetstream is another good option.

https://www.smithoptics.com/...w/E007439KS5559.html

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [TriChris14] [ In reply to ]

Nov 22, 22 19:30

Post #3 of 19 (2057 views)

Aerohead and Wing test pretty fast on most. It was a tie for me so I went for the Wing because it’s lighter.

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [TriChris14] [ In reply to ]

Nov 22, 22 21:05

Post #4 of 19 (2031 views)

Arrow head is *about half a pound heavier than the LG P-09.The LG is one of the more reasonable helmets (anecdotally) for cooling and weight. Old design so can be had cheap and still recommended as a good choice if you can’t test.

Maurice

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 4:26

Post #5 of 19 (1935 views)

Sbernardi wrote:

Aerohead and Wing test pretty fast on most. It was a tie for me so I went for the Wing because it’s lighter.

Was heat part of your decision ?

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 4:37

Post #6 of 19 (1928 views)

I’ve had the Aerohead, Wing, and Jetstream. The Aerohead seemed heavy to me. The Wing didn’t fit me at all. The S/M pressed against my ears to the point of pain and the L too big.

The Jetstream fits great and feels light. That stated, haven’t ridden with it yet.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [TriChris14] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 5:10

Post #7 of 19 (1911 views)

TriChris14 wrote:

Going to get a new aero helmet soon. Maybe even a few. In the past I used the old Rudy Syton helmet (without ears), Giro Advantage 2 (with ears), as well as regular Giro road Atmos helmet.

Working on a new tri-position over the winter time. So, yes, I realize that one may be better for a certain position and my body versus another position, etc...

Here are my thoughts as to options I'd consider...

1. Giro Aerohead 2. Rudy Wing (newest version) 3. specialized evade 4. Giro Attack.

Yes, I know the latter two are aero road helmets. I have read numerous reports that Aerohelmets are faster than aero road by about 1 sec a km. Is this ONLY in the WINDTUNNEL? Or, have these tests that we seem to be hearing done in a real world environment - as in, outside when it is in the 80s/90s. Just because the pros race TT Aero and not aero Road helmets doesn't necessarily mean they are faster. I'm really curious as to the real world tests... Does anyone know the protocol for these tests?

Also, if I did get the Aerohead I'd probably never use the visor unless the temperature was just right for it. Which, makes me wonder how aero would it be compared to an Aero Road option. My own experience with the Advantage 2 is that it was hot. So, much so, I wonder if it effected my performance negatively on certain occasions. And, in addition I wish I do look (glance) down often enough at power that I was wondering how aero is it really over the long haul.... As such, I really don't want one with a long tail, which is why I put the Rudy on the list (and it at least has vents).

Yes, I get it I should test - but, I don't have enough time. And, since a lot of claims are potentially biased and/or marketing based, hence these questions.

Thanks for reading.
Chris

Your questions on testing:

Take two helmets into the wind tunnel. They will report back to you in terms of the difference in grams of drag OR the change in CDA between the two helmets. You probably want to translate those numbers to time saved on the course OR watts saved. This will depend on the speed you are riding at.

Let's talk in CDA and watts saved. Two helmets could have a difference of .01 in CDA. This would translate to about 10watts at 30mph, but around 6 watts at the speed of a 5h IM leg (36km/h). That 10watts at 30mph will roughly be 1s per km. So yes, you can see that spread.

For example, a buddy tested a Giro Aerohead vs Giro Vanquish and found 8 watts at IM speed. He did the tests on the road with an aerometer and they were very repeatable. In this case, an aerometer measures wind, it reads the power meter and speed sensor while measuring altitude change and it computes the amount of energy to overcome air resistance. From that it can derive a CDA.

His 8watts at IM speed would translate to roughly 2.5minutes over an IM (roughly)

Because of heat, he chose to give up the 8watts.

He did order a Rudy hoping it will give him and aero avantage and good cooling.

Last edited by: marcag: Nov 23, 22 5:16

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [marcag] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 7:37

Post #8 of 19 (1866 views)

Not at all. I live in Phoenix so I get used to that part. If heat was an issue I’d go no visor w sunglasses

http://www.TriScottsdale.org

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 7:40

Post #9 of 19 (1861 views)

The GMAN wrote:

Smith Jetstream is another good option.

https://www.smithoptics.com/...w/E007439KS5559.html

I haven’t tested it, so it could be a sail on me, but the Jeststream is comfortable, breathable, and the lenses are great.

--------------------------------------------------------

It seemed like a good idea at the time. . .

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 8:29

Post #10 of 19 (1832 views)

Sbernardi wrote:

Not at all. I live in Phoenix so I get used to that part. If heat was an issue I’d go no visor w sunglasses

What did you use in Kona ?

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [marcag] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 11:11

Post #11 of 19 (1788 views)

Wing w sunglasses. Took out vent cover as well

http://www.TriScottsdale.org

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 13:38

Post #12 of 19 (1742 views)

mauricemaher wrote:

Arrow head is *about half a pound heavier than the LG P-09.The LG is one of the more reasonable helmets (anecdotally) for cooling and weight. Old design so can be had cheap and still recommended as a good choice if you can’t test.

Maurice

This LG helmet is on sale for $115 on their website.

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [TriChris14] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 14:53

Post #13 of 19 (1706 views)

Two questions:

Why would you not wear the visor on an aerohead?
Visors are great, I see absolutely no downside to the visor on mine unless it's a personal preference appearance thing. Which is fine if that's your jam.

Why wouldn't you mount your computer so you don't have to tip your head to see it?

Seems silly to buy a helmet for a specific reason when that "problem is easily solved.

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [marcag] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 15:21

Post #14 of 19 (1690 views)

Interesting. This is a great answer and really what I was looking to understand! So, I am presuming he chose the vaquish because it doesn't wrap the ears, correct? Separately, has there been any feedback yet when comparing either (Vanquish or Aerohead) to the new Wing he purchased?

I probably wont do a windtunnel as I don't know of any near me. I do see some products out there for that, any you would recommend? Trying to see if there is any pricing on body rocket, but couldn't find anything online...

Running is the best source of fiber that I know of...

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [TriChris14] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 15:54

Post #15 of 19 (1678 views)

TriChris14 wrote:

Interesting. This is a great answer and really what I was looking to understand! So, I am presuming he chose the vaquish because it doesn't wrap the ears, correct? Separately, has there been any feedback yet when comparing either (Vanquish or Aerohead) to the new Wing he purchased?

I probably wont do a windtunnel as I don't know of any near me. I do see some products out there for that, any you would recommend? Trying to see if there is any pricing on body rocket, but couldn't find anything online...

His choice was really scientific and non scientific. The scientific part was "it's 2.5minutes". The unscientific part was "I will not give up the comfort for 2.5 minutes". He is a huge sweater. Air flow was probably the biggest factor but his perceived comfort was what made the decision.

As for testing, that depends a lot on budget, time available and how technical you are.. I suspect body rocket is not yet there for the masses.

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [marcag] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 15:58

Post #16 of 19 (1676 views)

Understood. Mildly technical. More techy if time allows, less techy, if time doesn't allow... which, it rarely does. any pricing range on these (i'm assuming this will be monthly membershipish...)? any, input on which ones are better, and which are worse?

Running is the best source of fiber that I know of...

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [TriChris14] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 16:52

Post #17 of 19 (1662 views)

TriChris14 wrote:

Understood. Mildly technical. More techy if time allows, less techy, if time doesn't allow... which, it rarely does. any pricing range on these (i'm assuming this will be monthly membershipish...)? any, input on which ones are better, and which are worse?

Aerolab and GoldenCheetah. Free, requires a fair amount of learning to get good results
Aerotunes : If you have a flat venue with constant wind conditions a good option. It's a montly suscription. It's a good learning experience. Not much risk here.

In the mid price $599 and $899, there is Notio and Gibli. There are pros and cons to each.

There are more options coming in 2023. Price will probably come down substantially. I think accuracy will rise substantially.

There are aero testers that use the above and other more expensive products. I think their value is the knowledge and experience they bring to the table. However, like fitters, there is a some BS out there and there are some really good people. Guys like Desert Dude are the people I would talk to and the reason I called on.

Last edited by: marcag: Nov 23, 22 17:57

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [marcag] [ In reply to ]

Nov 23, 22 18:24

Post #18 of 19 (1633 views)

A few comments:

1. You can probably sniff out helmets with VE Chung testing especially if one is yaw or head/fit style dependent. And….think of that measly watt change in terms of “I cannot train more, that is all” and therefore that 2w is pure gain.

2. Remember #1 if you really change your fit wrt head position. I own/kept my 4 helmets over time. Just in case.

3. Aero testing even with newer easier more accurate sensors outdoors will still depend on a disciplined rider with a scientific method mentality. It won’t pick the helmet for you.

I say cruise ebay and used here or used UK TT forums. Buy and test 3 at a time. Sell the slowest keep the two fastest. Keep going till you are sick of it or find no real difference.

I own a Giro Adv 2 for nostalgic reasons, a rare in US D2Z Aeroswitch, an Aerohead, and a Tempor. Worst to best is like .015. Second to best is like .005. And likely yaw dependent. Fwiw…..it goes Tempor, Aeroswitch, Aerohead, Adv2.

Advice also. Refer to the bike fit in promotional literature and what the fit of the best pros using that helmet are that in the moment are not sponsor obligated. A clue as to what bike fits the helmet works for.

Re: Aero Helmet Questions [TriChris14] [ In reply to ]

Nov 24, 22 8:19

Post #19 of 19 (1545 views)

TriChris14 wrote:

Understood. Mildly technical. More techy if time allows, less techy, if time doesn't allow... which, it rarely does. any pricing range on these (i'm assuming this will be monthly membershipish...)? any, input on which ones are better, and which are worse?

there is a podcast here that goes over various options : podcast

It gives a "glass half full" view of things

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