Ummm, at the risk of going off on a tangent, if you could hold 35 sec/50 yd, or 1:10/100 yd, for 4225 yd (2.4 mi in a 25 yd pool), then you'd be swimming about 49:18 for the 4225, not 58:30...so I think you must have been going a bit harder than "easy". The 58:30 is 1:23/100 yd. Just a minor quibble from one of the other Erics on ST. :)

I'll take a stab - I think Eric's overarching point is that running doesn't cause injuries, running at a higher intensity does. So in your case, the suggestion is that it wasn't the heavy volume, it was the addition of intensities other than easy to that volume. Or, running the daily volume too fast. Or, you just got injured from running - which Eric is denying is possible (this is where I disagree with him).

I rarely post anymore, but I lurk a lot. Been following this thread. I generally agree with Eric. I was constantly broken in high school and early college on 25mpw, running hard frequently (daily runs low 7/mi, lots of progressions + intensity). Could sneak into the mid/high 17s for 5km, with stark drop-offs as distance got longer, with 10k and HM around 37:30/1:24-25. Slowed down my daily running to around 8-830/mi for a while, ran 40-50mpw with strides and no intensity, and dropped my 10k/HM to low 36/1:21 in 2yrs. Added some harder workouts thinking 1:17-1:18 was in the bag, no dice, constant aches/pains. I have flat feet, am 5'8 and was 170lb on the day I ran 1:21 (built like a wrestler). As a high school freshman after a summer of 20-25mpw, I ran 24:13 for my first 5k. What I'm getting at - not built to run. Still managed routine 40-50mpw for going on 4 years now, just by moderating intensity to what my body could handle daily rather than living by a stopwatch on easy days.

And lastly (I say this as a subscriber bc it is my training log) - Strava culture is terrible. Training properly is not popular, and people in general seek acknowledgment of their accomplishments. The Kona Champ and Olympic Champ will regularly jog 8min pace, and folks as them why they're running so slow in the comments. Strava encourages people to over-perform daily in search of Kudos, at the expense of consistent and intelligent training.

I like the discussion and experiment. Here is something’s to consider in the discussions.

Long term results from our group:

the guys that ran in the 2:08 to 2:11 range for the marathon were talented former D1 runners who averaging 120 to 175 miles per week at peak. They also were the elite so had allot of time to train. Amateur running meant no making money from their racing so they worked at running stores with flexible hours to be able to train. Primary goal for these guys were to win big at the world level which included the Olympics, Boston, NCAA, etc. These guys were coached by Squires, Lydiard and Bowerman.

The guys running 2:20 to 2:30 were former D3 or new to running who needed to build base so where also high mileage guys running 80 to 120 miles at peak. They were middle of the pack runners who occasionally won races but were more hobbyists. They had full time jobs and many had families. We base our mileage watching the D1 guys but had to back off on our mileage because we just didn’t have the time to recover or the talent to hit their rewards.

The guys running sub 2:20 to 2:13 were talented D2 runners that wanted to make the Olympic trials and do well. Some were striving to move up to the next level with the D1 guys. They won most of the local races and were also working jobs with flexible hours. They averaged 60 to 80 miles at peak and had the talent to not have to run the big miles to achieve results most likely because they already have the base from years of high school and college running.

All of the guys met for track sessions on Tuesdays and Long tempo runs 20 to 22 miles at sub 6 min pace on Saturday.

As mentioned above, long term you can see the results of the different trainings on the guys.

2:08 to 2:11 - no longer running
Sub 2:20 to 2:13 - won the 60+ cross country team championships
2:20 to 2:30 - hobbled but still running 20 to 40 miles per week

Hindsight I would definitely advocate for hobbyist runners to think about good quality over quantity with plenty of rest and cross training to stay healthy. Do the track/interval sessions and the long tempo runs at the correct paces to reach goals and target 60 to 75 miles per week. Also the consistency over the years, it takes about ten years to hit peak in the marathon, will build the base. Doing huge mileage weeks, 100+, over and over again will pound your body and have long term negative impacts. I think we all want to be healthy and run well into life.

Oh, I see, still ran a sub 3 hour marathon at age 50, which I think is awesome. Taking the positive out of this thread, I've gone out and run every day since I read it.

That's a heavy piano in the right hand side of the graph. Ran 70 km this week, nothing comapred to 118 miles, but had only run 20 km/week thisnyear

Hi Eric,

No it’s “easy” to swim a :35 for 50 yards, but hard for that pace long term because of endurance I guess. Or maybe it’s just me. Like, it’s also “easy” to run 100m in 20 seconds, but I couldn’t do that for a whole mile.

Same for my mile repeats right now… 6:00/mi feels “easy” but a 2:37 marathon would be insanely hard and impossible.

This is a complex discussion on the idea of “training by feel” if you want to dig deeper.

E

Maybe you should reflect a bit calling other people dumb and being part of a cult . When you race dumb. And are part of a cult . I don't disagree with your cult but the chap about the long time D1 to D3 marathon runners makes good points .
It's 2022 and by know we understand what's god's for one might not be good for the other.

Then you go one post it's all about results and then the next how great it is to run sub 3 at 50 when you admiringly have fucked up .
I understand you then talk long-term but then you talk about long term approach, you had me there but then you are doing an I'm Florida 2023 and have no bikes and swim fitness.....
So my question really is do you actually have a plan or not ?
Or are you just jumping around .IE do you think you run well in Florida not having swim a s bike fitness. I can answer this for you the answer is almost certainly no.

You may find this article interesting as it explains some benefits of breaking up daily workout into multiple sessions.