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Re: Putting things in perspective [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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If I owned MB, I would be sending Dan a Thank you card for providing a forum in which I could learn what people think of me and my company. I could then decide that things are going great and there will always be a few that I can't please or I would take a hard look at what I am doing and make adjustments from there. I don't see why Dan feels the need to protect these stores from feedback. Maybe this goes deeper than what the rest of us know.
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Re: Putting things in perspective [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I feel your pain Dan. As much as you've put into the sport I'm sure it's easy to get pissed at people who "never give back".

I have been on both sides.....you know what, there are takers! I just remembered who they are. I was volunteering at Danskin last year, working the food tables, and I couldn't believe the odasity of some of those fine ladies! I actually saw folks walking through the food tent stuffing bags full of shit like they were at the grocery store! It was unbelievable. And when you tell them to "leave something for the other atheletes" they look at you like you like you just ripped away their first born.

That was not a fun job. :( Kind of drags down the "feel-good" vibe you are supposed to get from doing a race.
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Re: Putting things in perspective [Kentiger] [ In reply to ]
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On the flip side, I've been to that bike shop in Dundas and have dealt with the owner a couple of times. I even sent a buddy over there (who lives in Woodbridge) to buy a bike. Granted, he's not exactly a warm and cuddly type of guy - but he does know his shit, and worked really hard to get my trainer fixed when I bent the frame on it in the middle of winter, when he could easily have tried to sell me a new one - especially given that I didn't buy it from him and he knew it. He was also the first place in Canada (as far as I'm aware) to carry T1 wetsuits. Their mainstay business may be mountain bikes, but they also know tri.

For the record, I like the guys at Enduro too. Props to City Cycle in SF, and Tri-Action in Vancouver while I'm at it!


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
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Re: Putting things in perspective [JLV] [ In reply to ]
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"Maybe this goes deeper than what the rest of us know."

nytro and MB are advertisers. wildflower, chicago triathlon, tom demerly, dan rishworth, and plenty of others are not. i give this same speech about once every 9 months or so when another round of trial by internet occurs, regardless of any business relationship.

the only posts i pull are those that say that such and such product is "unsafe." i pull those posts first because they're hugely unfair, secondly to protect the person posting from the mother of all lawsuits that will very possibly go undefended by your homeowners carrier, depending on whether it thinks you've committed an illegal act. either way, big nuisance for everybody.

then there is your garden-variety "i'll never do business with *fill in the blank* again, it's the most arrogant, dishonest, overpriced, undervalued (choose adjective) enterprise in existence. plus, i'll tell everybody."

these posts don't get pulled. they just get answered. wait 9 months. you'll see it again on the forum.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Putting things in perspective [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, that wasn't very clear.

"Maybe this goes deeper than what the rest of us know."

I meant that maybe there is something going on in Chicago with this store that you know about, that the rest of us don't. Politics within the tri community stuff. I was a bit surprised at your at the fervor of your defence. The complaints about this shop seemed like the same complaints that people have about almost every bike shop.
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Re: Putting things in perspective [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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"i don't mind if most of the people are taking, or buying, or consuming, or whatever you'd like to call it"

To me calling it "taking" shows a rather weighted perspective. Everytime I go into a shop it seems like they are taking from me (cash). Very rarely am I "taking" something I can't find a dozen other places competing to "give" me.

We could have triathlon without triathlon shops, but you can't have triathlon shops without triathletes. Since running a tri shop is probably more fun than what most of us do for a living, it fits that people are willing to do it for a minimal living wage. People in the tri industry are no more heros than the rest of us trying to make a living, they just have different priorities. Most of their activities to "enable triathlon" also enable them to make a living at it. I "enable" them just as much by buying crap I don't need.

Volunteers are givers.
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Re: Putting things in perspective [JLV] [ In reply to ]
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"The complaints about this shop seemed like the same complaints that people have about almost every bike shop."

yes. you're right. i try not to overdo this speech. as i said, not much more than once per year.

on a couple of occasions, when i've gotten really torqued about someting especially outrageous perpetrated on those who earn a living in triathlon, i've inquired of the employer of the offender. funny how the tune changes when someone's income is threatened. be nice if the effects on the earnings of a person was considered before inflamatory comments were made.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Putting things in perspective [Kentiger] [ In reply to ]
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Maple Cyclery per chance? (If it's still there)

Used to be a very cool funky little shop until they moved up the street and then I wouldn't darken their door...well except to weigh my bike on their prominant meat hook by the front door.

I would love the Dundas arrogance again. So much friendlier than the Auckland NZ bike store crapola!

TriDork

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Putting things in perspective [Kentiger] [ In reply to ]
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Kentiger,

I'm an infrequent Slowtwitch reader and so I didn't see your original post until you posted this apology. I've read the threads about tri-retailers and the service (or lack thereof) they provide and I can relate to both sides of the argument.

Retailers and their staff are just people after all and some people are jerks, or at least have bad days. The challenge we have (as retailers) is to try and make sure that our staff is able to deliver the kind of service and experience our customers expect for every customer on every visit. With the high turnover and variety of staff most retailers have to deal with this is an on-going challenge.

Rest assured that Enduro Sport sets a high standard in this regard. As high as our product assortment and store layout and merchandising, but how our staff perform every moment of every day is by far the biggest challenge we face as retailers.

What I will say in our defense (speaking for Bill and Val and many other retailers I have met) is that we have the same expectations that you do about how customers should be treated and whenever you feel that our staff/stores don't live up to that expectation, let us, the owners, know. We want to make things right for you, but more over we want to know when our staff and systems breakdown and try to address the problem at the source.

As I often remind my friends in the industry when they are frustrated with the challenges of running a business, if it were easy everyone would be doing it.
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Re: Putting things in perspective [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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All of this over someone asking if there is a tri shop when he comes to Chicago. Its a bit dramatic.

I work for Bill on occasion at the store. It has been my experience at MB that at one time there was not the right fit for management running the show (post-Rich). This was realized by Bill and taken care of. (Thanks Rich for your help when you were there). 25 years in retail, its bound to happen. Running a retail business can take the fun out of the sport you love, and somehow Bill & Val have managed to keep their enthusiasm. If you want to run this buz, give up your Ironmans, give up your training and welcome to the world of 8 days a week retail. He works 8 days a week to run those 2 stores and somehow in all of this mess his integrity was questioned. I know that if someone is not happy, he will try to make it right, I have witnessed it. I know that the business IS dependent upon customer service, and I am not dismissing anyones claims to the service they received. Just know he would try to make it right. He has a big heart and if I could I would buy the business from him so he & Val could vacation after all these years, they have earned it.

Cheers to Bill & Val. Thanks for being so good to us.

Amy
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Re: Putting things in perspective [Kentiger] [ In reply to ]
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I have been indirectly involved in this business ( bike & Tri) for many years. I think part of the problem is that many people who work the shop floors of bike stores think that they are experts - they may very well be - but in just a couple of sentences or less they can offend, irritate, overwhelm, piss-off a potential customer by what emerges from their mouths.

I don't want to get all pompous and elitiest here, but it has happened to me with regularity for many years. I have been in the sport for 20 years, I have had modest competive success, yet within a sentance or two a sales person is trying to tell/sell me something in a way that is really NOT motivating me to carry on. Why? It takes a lot to offend me, but when some kid who is barely out of highschool is telling me how to train for an Ironman, we are not off on the best realtionship foot

Here's what I suggest: Tom D had a great list of questions that he get's his staff to ask people coming in the shop, that can pretty much fix the experience of the shopper right there on the sport. To me this is absolutly key. The the smart sales person can adjust his/her stance and talk/listen to the customer AT THERE LEVEL! Now, If I am in a shop and in buying or information gathering mode and I don't asked that sort of question I just tell the salesperson who has approached me in a non-boastfull way what my background and experience in cycling and tri is. Then we are suddenly AT THE SAME LEVEL and things go smoothly from there. Often the salesperson goes and get's the shop owner and we have a good chat about the business and what's happening and the relationship really warms up.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Putting things in perspective [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Dan,

Whenever I read about this sort of thing, I wonder if this same dynamic happened before newsgroups/internet/email. Sure, shoppers had bad experiences and/or retailers were fairly or unfairly maligned. However, it took some time for the news to get around by word of mouth. Now, this sort of news, true or false, can be spread quite rapidly all over the world in a very short period of time. One bad experience on the part of a consumer and it's "QR Sucks" or "Endurosport is terrible", or . . . with a apologies to QR and Edurosport(both great brands and companies) all over the internet. No judge. No jury. No real truth.

Perhaps it's the customer who is the nutbar or unstable. When I was at Sugoi, I recall getting some cycling shorts back that looked like they had been melted somehow. There was a note with the return. A guy had been trying to warm himself up over an open fire with the shorts on, holding his arse over the fire! The shorts started to melt and fall apart right on him. He wanted us to replace the shorts!!!! I was surprised we did not get sued for burns or disfigurment. I felt like writing a note back asking him to stay tuned for our asbestos lined model coming out next year!

Fleck


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Putting things in perspective [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with Fleck on a couple of things. Find out what their experience is and go from there and suddenly you are on the same level. I work there because its fun for me to learn peoples experiences.
Secondly, people will try to return anything. Its quite scary!!

Amy
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