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Re: From soccer to Kona M35-39 age group champion [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:
stevie g wrote:
Yes, think we can probably cover both and don't see a guy in 35-39 going pro so it makes sense to be an AG at his stage in life.


Why? He doesn't have to make any changes to do it. He would just race with people of his ability and get race entry benefits.


For us in the UK it is a pretty big change since we have very limited Pro races but loads of AG only events.
I believe the UK will only have 1 IM 70.3 & 1 Challange middle pro race next year.
So for GB Pros most of my racing will require flights & travel logistics.
Mostly likely end up costing more per event & certainly more time from home/work.

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Last edited by: BenwGoodfellow: Nov 21, 22 7:41
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Re: From soccer to Kona M35-39 age group champion [BenwGoodfellow] [ In reply to ]
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That's interesting, in the US beyond only like the AG national championship events, pros can race in any event...they just get scrubbed from the awards or get put in their own separate category. I know when IM went to AG only races about 5 years I believe a low level pro raced it and "won". I believe it was IM Wisconsin. You aren't banned from races, you simply cant get counted in AG awards, etc.

eta: any "local" race I've ever seen has an "open" category to allow said pros to race and/or anyone who wants to race FOP, to race in said category. This allows the elites to get scrubbed from the AG ranks.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Nov 21, 22 8:07
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Re: From soccer to Kona M35-39 age group champion [timr] [ In reply to ]
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timr wrote:
It's almost like Dev could've said, 'Great article. I like the movement of Slowtwitch. Can you add some BOP Pros to help get them some exposure? I'd also like to hear about the training and struggles.'

But instead, he took the low road in a dramatic fashion.

This is exactly right. Dev has some good points but because of the way he made his first point, I think it rubbed people the wrong way and turned into this non-productive banter. I love the AG interviews and always read them, but I think a BOP pro would also be interesting at times.

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Re: From soccer to Kona M35-39 age group champion [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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And you've done an interview with Kat Matthews.
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...t_Matthews_8571.html
She's a pro so hopefully @Dev will be OK with that.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Nov 21, 22 11:03
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Re: From soccer to Kona M35-39 age group champion [DKMNTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Haha....in the words of the very honorable yet fictitious Col Jessop, 'You want the truth?...I'll tell you the truth..." And then he went on.

Joking aside I likely ruffled a number of people because I called out age group racing for what it is. A second division of racing in the scheme of pointy end performance where the real performers are in a higher level of racing.

The results on sportstats bear this out. That's the truth. Some may have been offended by me explicitly pointing it out. It is OK to want prominence for our age grouper racing.

Ironman makes us age groupers feel more important than we really are. In reality we are fans in the seats paying overpriced tickets while pretending we are in the same league as the pros which we are not. It is like playing fantasy football at Levis stadium in Santa Clara on an imaginary parallel turf to the 49ers....but we are not playing NFL but we want NFL level attention.

I love racing on the same course on the same day as Blummenfeld. It is a great ego boost. My tickets are booked to do this in Finland but in reality can do the same 70.3 of exercise solo out my front door. But no social media bragging rights with the Ironman brand packaging and no one to do it with and no pros to compare to!!! So I get it, I really do but let's not over glorify what age group racing is.

I look forward to seeing many of you at races. I am working on Pauli Kuru to jump in and put the hurt on us at Finland world's like he used back in the day as he still runs and swims pretty fast but is also a minister in Finland today. Let's see. Always fun racing with today's and yesterday's legends
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Re: From soccer to Kona M35-39 age group champion [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I agree.

I prefer the sports/events that don't have the 5yr age cats.

Elite/pro
A grade
B grade
C grade
Masters (>45)
60+

or something like that.

Or even the smaller events that are simply -

Open
Masters

You can win your 5yr age category in triathlon but still get beaten by 10 people that might be within a few years younger or older; that probably started in the same wave as you. that's just weird. The non age group categories also give the good amateurs more competition and probably better racing as there are more people around their performance level to compete against.

But - people love winning - so 5yr age groups are what triathlon does to keep the masses coming back for their bling and praise.
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Re: From soccer to Kona M35-39 age group champion [multisportfun] [ In reply to ]
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Re: From soccer to Kona M35-39 age group champion [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
That's interesting, in the US beyond only like the AG national championship events, pros can race in any event...they just get scrubbed from the awards or get put in their own separate category. I know when IM went to AG only races about 5 years I believe a low level pro raced it and "won". I believe it was IM Wisconsin. You aren't banned from races, you simply cant get counted in AG awards, etc.

eta: any "local" race I've ever seen has an "open" category to allow said pros to race and/or anyone who wants to race FOP, to race in said category. This allows the elites to get scrubbed from the AG ranks.

Untrue - Pros cannot race in any IRONMAN or 70.3 event where there isn't a professional field. Here in the US that limits a large number of races.
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Re: From soccer to Kona M35-39 age group champion [erengel23] [ In reply to ]
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Pro's can race in AG only IM events. IM has a whole section for pro's to follow if they choose to race in said AG only events.

https://cdn1.sportngin.com/...roup_Only_Events.pdf

Eta: so my point stands, there is very few actual events Pro’s are barred from racing entirely. You just get scrubbed from winning any “awards”. For the BOP pro it’s kinda the reverse “sandbagging” in that the pro is racing an event they *shouldnt* but still can. And yes a MOP/BOP pro has raced and “won” an AG only event.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Nov 23, 22 11:21
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Re: From soccer to Kona M35-39 age group champion [erengel23] [ In reply to ]
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So for the most part for a very early on “pro” there doesn’t need to be “pro only” races on your calendar *atleast* in the US. Go race the local events (may or may not have an open wave) that are easy on the budget, if you have a local IM event go race it. Sure you’ll want to race a handful of elite wave 70.3 or IM, (to race the best) but this idea that suddenly you can only race in “pro only” and you must travel for all races, is in fact false. That’s an important narrative to correct because I think very young pros in fact may not even be ready to race “pro only” schedule. They can use local events to test fitness etc and then use the pro wave races to “test how good they are” etc.

So for the most part changing from AG to elite doesn’t have to be this huge change in race schedules, especially for BOP/MOP 1st year pro’s. You can still race local, but you must tell the race to scrub you from an AG specific result, that is one stipulation that is necessary (overall is fine but you can’t count in AG ranks)


Eta: and mind you if you look at the schedule that *some* AG athletes race, they “travel” for as many big races as much as many pros do.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Nov 24, 22 6:26
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