I heard on CBC once morning a professor from somewhere saying to retain a cash float and utilize cash on an every day basis costs a business upwards of 8% as there is the time the employees use to count and track the money, the time to take the money to the bank, the bank fees for certain types of deposits (after hours bank drops) and stuff like that. Stuff people don't generally think about when looking at what something costs.

I think if credit card fees were just included in the price, then prices would go up some, but probably not the full amount of what they charge for credit card users (so they charge consumers who use a card 3%, but prices go up 2% if it just ends up included). As someone who always chooses the cash pay rate when it makes sense, I am glad the fees are separated. We purchased new counter tops a while back and they had a 3% convenience fee for a card payment. Even once I factored in rewards cash back we would have received, it didn't make sense and was definitely worth the money to write a check.

The ones that annoy me are when I go to check out and a convenience/credit card fee is added when there is no option to pay with check or cash and it wasn't disclosed up front. In that instance, the fees should absolutely be included in the price.

the point that BLeP is making, that most of you seem to not get, is that the telecoms are greedy bastards operating in close to monopolistic conditions.

the costs of processing cards is already baked into their fees.
they want to charge an additional fee for processing cards, ostensibly to encourage people to move to automatic direct pay, reducing the telecom's costs.
those cost reductions will not be passed on to the consumer in the form of rate reductions. not a chance.

So, if I were a vindictive type, what I would do is every month when the bill is due to Bell or Rogers (or whomever BLeP is with), I'd go down to the bank, withdraw that amount in coins of various denominations. break the rolls and take them to the local store to pay the bill. Tell them why you are paying like that.

I might feel a little bad for the poor schmuck who has to count it (twice, once at the payment and again when they close the register).

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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I can't remember where the article was, but Josh from Silca was talking about fees etc for running an online business and he said that any credit card that offers cash back is actually a fee that the payee must pay back to the card company, so if your card has a 3% cash back on something Visa is just charging the vendor another 3% on top of the original transaction fee.

That made me feel kind of dirty using a rewards card at small businesses as they don't know what the cash back on any card is going to be. They bake in or add on the 2.5% transaction fee and then have an unknown % to pay back at the end of the month.

I am all for sticking to the big guys that have forced some sort of a monopoly, but that extra couple percent is real dollars for a food truck or other such small business.

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Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

The gov't prevents this, too... The Currency act limits how much you can pay with coins, before the payee can tell you to pound sand...

(2) A tender of payment in coins referred to in subsection (1) is a legal tender for no more than the following amounts for the following denominations of coins:

• 
  (a) forty dollars if the denomination is two dollars or greater but does not exceed ten dollars;
  
• 
  (b) twenty-five dollars if the denomination is one dollar;
  
• 
  (c) ten dollars if the denomination is ten cents or greater but less than one dollar;
  
• 
  (d) five dollars if the denomination is five cents; and
  
• 
  (e) twenty-five cents if the denomination is one cent.
  

Partial payments, my friend ;-)

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Did you know in Canada, vendors/stores are not required to take paper/coin money?

yes, but that's not really relevant to the point being made.

whether they take the money or not, they're still having to spend time & money dealing with the person.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I was commenting more to your point of:
"So, if I were a vindictive type, what I would do is every month when the bill is due to Bell or Rogers (or whomever BLeP is with), I'd go down to the bank, withdraw that amount in coins of various denominations. break the rolls and take them to the local store to pay the bill. Tell them why you are paying like that."

The store could just tell you to go pound sand. :)

lol... Nope.

Different amounts payable on the same day
(3) For the purposes of subsections (2) and (2.1), where more than one amount is payable by one person to another on the same day under one or more obligations, the total of those amounts is deemed to be one amount due and payable on that day.

I completely agree with you that the telecoms are greedy bastards; so are the banks. At a certain point, we need to start asking ourselves how much is too much...

That's what I'd do if some asshole came in to the store to pay a $200 bill with nickels and quarters ;-)

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

That's not how capitalism works. The business doesn't just decide if they want to keep the money or give it back to the consumer. The market dictates that, regardless of what they want to charge.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
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I think a lot of this depends on the industry/what the costs actually are % wise.

Either way, as long as your provide a way to pay that doesnt involve the fees, I am fine with the customer eating the fee.

The CC fees are not just "fees" but credit cards do offer consumer protections. My wife recently had her CC stolen/fraud charges on her card. She was able to recoup the full value (over $1000). If something similar happened via check/debit card she wouldnt have gotten the money back.

We implemented the surcharge to use a credit card in the group I was with in Texas several years ago. In Texas it is highly regulated as you can't profit off the transaction. Hence, if the vendor is billed 3% to take the credit card, the max surcharge would be 3%.

A number of vendors have been doing similar things. Years ago, Fed-ex added a gas surcharge to their invoices and I guess it was so successful they never took it off.

There are some places you can still bargain a cash discount. I get 2% cash back on any purchase so it has to be more than that before I'm interested. Of course a lot of places just don't take credit cards for payment.

Credit cards issuers (not visa/mc) make most of their money from interest charged, the merchant fees are secondary. The visa/mc piece (assessment fee) is much smaller, 0.14%. Of course each charge is a "loan" and they have losses when people don't pay back.

So, to the question, I'm fine with having the merchant and assessment fees "priced in" and most people will get at least some of that back through rewards assuming the don't pay interest. If it's a larger transaction and the merchant wants a credit card fee or pay with check, then I assume they mostly get paid with checks and are not pricing in their credit card merchant fees. Some bike shops operate like that although these days they should be offering consumer financing for $10K bikes!

The alternative, having to do things in cash, is a pain. When we travel to my wife's home country we have to carry a lot of cash because many places won't accept credit cards, and the largest bill in common circulation is the equivalent of about $7, so I have to have a big envelope of cash with me all the time. If my credit card gets stolen I have recourse, if my cash gets stolen I'm out of luck. Last time we were there someone stole a $100 bill from my wife, that would have covered a lot of credit card fees. I remember decades ago getting American Express Traveler's Checks....wonder if those still exist.

I worked retail as a teen. I hated travelers cheques, we saw them so rarely that we had to pull out the register manual every other year when one came along.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

So your funny money isn't legal tender.... Easily solvable

Because it's scrip?

Understandable that few civilized folks visit Canada

Do you live in 1987? Are you still regularly using traveler's checks?

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Hey windy there are more ways to pay then just a check or CC.

I think all my utilities charge more if I pay by cc. Just pay electronically.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Maybe its just the places you shop, but lots of places in US already do. and Online payments many do also, monthly bills like to be paid electronically

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

It doesn't work like that.

There's a whole daisy chain of agreements between businesses that ultimately end in the agreement between the issuing bank and the consumer. Everyone knows their expected outcomes before any transactions. "Cashback" percentages are just a marketing decision within a particular issuing bank's strategy based on the money it receives from the major credit card companies. It doesn't change the upstream agreements into the small businesses.

Credit card companies offer a helluva service. As we are finding out here, they also benefit from the fact that a large portion of their fees are often not transparent to the consumer. When things aren't completely explicit there's always going to be some portion of the populace that thinks airline miles, cashback, even fraud protection just rain from the sky.