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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [bluefever] [ In reply to ]
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bluefever wrote:
Phillipp was clearly devastated and angry at the penalty. What she seemed most angry about was not even getting an explanation as to why - I can understand this sucks. She seemed genuinely confused, and without an explanation, how do you know the referee got it right? She said she asked, and they wouldn't tell her.
I'm not going to expand any more on what she said, as clearly on here any non US athlete who gets a penalty gets no leeway at all, so there's no point. But she was visibly upset. I'm not German, but I felt terrible for her.
Anyway, loved it, the women's field has improved hugely. It's great to have a US winner (I'm not American), and long may we see races like this one.

So who got blue cards (5 mins)? Philipp (DEU), Clarke (NZ), Norden (SWE), Crowley (AUS), I think, from watching and commentary and some splits checks.
Pleased to see that the American and British contingent (the two nations with most numbers, so randomly one might expect some of them to be 'got') were sufficiently disciplined not to receive a drafting penalty.
There is no doubt that the albeit small trains we saw yesterday are few and far between in normal races. Even in St George the groups split apart pretty quickly, into twos or the odd three for a few miles.

But Sodaro and Moench rode to 90 miles together, with either Moench or Norden leading (Crowley into PT at 34 miles, and of course Norden then PT at Hawi, with Clarke joining her for a 'chat') and Sodaro rode back with Moench hanging on till 90 miles.

Ryf and Haug had Philipp pulling till she got a call to the mile 34 shade. And much later Haug was left on her own (Ryf had accelerated away by then) and she bled time to others even while burning her run matches.
Caveat propinquum secutor, and if your number is M15.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Oct 8, 22 2:00
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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I think it would be crazy cus of the depth of British tri and with the relay now, "domestique" positions are kinda not ever going to happen anymore (to be picked for the relay she'd have to make sure those bike skills were A+ for a gold medal contending team). And so I kinda think it would be a huge waste of time / resources especially as she's basically the queen of LC racing right now (even if she doens't win Kona). So I think the buy in is way too steep for her, and for what? A 10% chance of making the team?

Brooks Doughtie
-USAT Level II
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [TulkasTri] [ In reply to ]
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TulkasTri wrote:
Who was the last male rookie to win Kona in his debut on the island? Was it Dave Scott in 1980? Molina in '88? Luc Van Lierde in '96?

I’ve been doing some more research and it looks like it was Van Lierde in ‘96, and before him it was Allen in 1980.

So that means only two rookies have won Kona?
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
I think it would be crazy cus of the depth of British tri and with the relay now, "domestique" positions are kinda not ever going to happen anymore (to be picked for the relay she'd have to make sure those bike skills were A+ for a gold medal contending team). And so I kinda think it would be a huge waste of time / resources especially as she's basically the queen of LC racing right now (even if she doens't win Kona). So I think the buy in is way too steep for her, and for what? A 10% chance of making the team?
The only role she might in extremis be selected for is as a domestique, and even then she will never have the criterium bike skills. Can you see a megastar influencer like LCB saying 'yes please' to a domestique role (eg like Lucy Buckingham (nee Hall) at London - she led the swim out)? Would GTB want Lucy in 'her' team? She won't get points in the sprints nor be any use in the MTR. Cagliari is the first standard distance this year, and BT will want to give the main players (for Paris) experience as well as points gathering. The ship, if it were ever in port, has sailed.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Oct 8, 22 1:06
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
I think it would be crazy cus of the depth of British tri and with the relay now, "domestique" positions are kinda not ever going to happen anymore (to be picked for the relay she'd have to make sure those bike skills were A+ for a gold medal contending team). And so I kinda think it would be a huge waste of time / resources especially as she's basically the queen of LC racing right now (even if she doens't win Kona). So I think the buy in is way too steep for her, and for what? A 10% chance of making the team?

AND she'd need a real short (2-3km) speed on the run, which unfortunately you just can't see happening compared to the other British girls contending. (I think you're indicating that you have to qualify for the individual race to be in the relay team). I'd hope the GB ladies earn 3 slots for Paris..but if you recall it's not an absolute given - the GB men only had 2 slots as they'd not earned enough for the 3rd.).

I was pleased that Lucy looked rather happy when coming down the finishing chute to come 2nd.

And can folks remember... how many times didn't Mark Allen win before he did. I believe most people view him as a rather successful triathlete these days. Wonder how much the ST forum would have written Mark Allen off as Larry the Loser before he won 6 times 🤔
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [BobAjobb] [ In reply to ]
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BobAjobb wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
I think it would be crazy cus of the depth of British tri and with the relay now, "domestique" positions are kinda not ever going to happen anymore (to be picked for the relay she'd have to make sure those bike skills were A+ for a gold medal contending team). And so I kinda think it would be a huge waste of time / resources especially as she's basically the queen of LC racing right now (even if she doens't win Kona). So I think the buy in is way too steep for her, and for what? A 10% chance of making the team?

AND she'd need a real short (2-3km) speed on the run, which unfortunately you just can't see happening compared to the other British girls contending. (I think you're indicating that you have to qualify for the individual race to be in the relay team). I'd hope the GB ladies earn 3 slots for Paris..but if you recall it's not an absolute given - the GB men only had 2 slots as they'd not earned enough for the 3rd.).

I was pleased that Lucy looked rather happy when coming down the finishing chute to come 2nd.

And can folks remember... how many times didn't Mark Allen win before he did. I believe most people view him as a rather successful triathlete these days. Wonder how much the ST forum would have written Mark Allen off as Larry the Loser before he won 6 times 🤔

She has said today that she is thrilled with her second place finish. She considered it a win just to get to the start line. I’m assuming she means after the injury.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [sonadortris] [ In reply to ]
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That's why I said this talk of itu makes no sense. She's living her best life, that "grind" for an Olympic spot would make zero sense.

Brooks Doughtie
-USAT Level II
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [BobAjobb] [ In reply to ]
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BobAjobb wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
I think it would be crazy cus of the depth of British tri and with the relay now, "domestique" positions are kinda not ever going to happen anymore (to be picked for the relay she'd have to make sure those bike skills were A+ for a gold medal contending team). And so I kinda think it would be a huge waste of time / resources especially as she's basically the queen of LC racing right now (even if she doens't win Kona). So I think the buy in is way too steep for her, and for what? A 10% chance of making the team?


AND she'd need a real short (2-3km) speed on the run, which unfortunately you just can't see happening compared to the other British girls contending. (I think you're indicating that you have to qualify for the individual race to be in the relay team). I'd hope the GB ladies earn 3 slots for Paris..but if you recall it's not an absolute given - the GB men only had 2 slots as they'd not earned enough for the 3rd.).

I was pleased that Lucy looked rather happy when coming down the finishing chute to come 2nd.

And can folks remember... how many times didn't Mark Allen win before he did. I believe most people view him as a rather successful triathlete these days. Wonder how much the ST forum would have written Mark Allen off as Larry the Loser before he won 6 times 🤔

Yeah I really hope she stays in LC and sees this 2nd place as a "win"considering her long injury lay-off. She will win Kona at some point.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
I don’t understand why she would consider going back to itu because she’s “disappointed” in being runner up yet again? This is her strength, and appeal. Hell she may never win ever but she may not even be top 5 Brit in itu so it would make no sense to leave this. Hell even if she never wins, this is her jam.

So don’t feel sorry for her, I actually thought holding on for 2nd was incredible result this year for her with her niggles this year and lack of racing.

Yup I agree. I'm pretty sure there are girls in ITU that are as quick on the swim or at the very least can hold her feet, negating the advantage she has in long course. The bike is draft legal and it comes down to the run - there are women a good 3mins quicker than her over 10km.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread ] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like Heather Jackson is retiring or at least moving on from IM racing and going to gravel. (She has been my favorite to watch for several years. Just love her demeanor, positive attitude and huge smile)

@hjacksonracing
I've been waiting 3 years for one last Kona and it did not disappoint 😹 Thank you @theother12hours for capturing the day in these 📷😹 Tough day out but I soaked in every second and said thank you to a race that has meant so much to me. For 8 years, my entire life has revolved around the second Saturday in October but I’m excited for the next frontier and some fresh new athletic goals. Time to get dirty🤘🏻🚴🏼‍♀️

Holy shit @chelseasodaro 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻 AMAZING. The biggest congrats to you and @lucycharles93 @tri.anne.haug and our entire women’s field. It is an honor to share the course with all of you.

Thank you to all of the volunteers out there yesterday, and to everyone cheering so loudly. Thank you to my incredible sponsors for making this journey possible for me. And thank you to my family, friends, and team behind the scenes for all your love+support. And @seanwattiewatkins … i have no words to express my gratitude. I love you❤️

Mahalo Kona
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [bluefever] [ In reply to ]
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bluefever wrote:

Phillipp was clearly devastated and angry at the penalty. What she seemed most angry about was not even getting an explanation as to why - I can understand this sucks. She seemed genuinely confused, and without an explanation, how do you know the referee got it right? She said she asked, and they wouldn't tell her.

I'm not going to expand any more on what she said, as clearly on here any non US athlete who gets a penalty gets no leeway at all, so there's no point.

I've never heard of a pro that has got a penalty and has gone "fair enough, I deserved that". Also when an official pings someone, they radio the penalty tent letting them know the race number and what the penalty is for so if the official on the bike didn't tell her, the officials in the tent would have known. Regardless there are different coloured cards and time penalties for the various offences, so she would have known whether it was for blocking or drafting. And also officials will normally warn someone if they are creeping in to the draft zone. If you're sitting at 10m, you will most likely get a warning. I think, like most pros, she's pissy she trained for this race for months and the penalty cost her big.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
bluefever wrote:

Phillipp was clearly devastated and angry at the penalty. What she seemed most angry about was not even getting an explanation as to why - I can understand this sucks. She seemed genuinely confused, and without an explanation, how do you know the referee got it right? She said she asked, and they wouldn't tell her.

I'm not going to expand any more on what she said, as clearly on here any non US athlete who gets a penalty gets no leeway at all, so there's no point.

I've never heard of a pro that has got a penalty and has gone "fair enough, I deserved that". Also when an official pings someone, they radio the penalty tent letting them know the race number and what the penalty is for so if the official on the bike didn't tell her, the officials in the tent would have known. Regardless there are different coloured cards and time penalties for the various offences, so she would have known whether it was for blocking or drafting. And also officials will normally warn someone if they are creeping in to the draft zone. If you're sitting at 10m, you will most likely get a warning. I think, like most pros, she's pissy she trained for this race for months and the penalty cost her big.


They said in the broadcast there were no warnings being given.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [sonadortris] [ In reply to ]
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sonadortris wrote:
zedzded wrote:
bluefever wrote:


Phillipp was clearly devastated and angry at the penalty. What she seemed most angry about was not even getting an explanation as to why - I can understand this sucks. She seemed genuinely confused, and without an explanation, how do you know the referee got it right? She said she asked, and they wouldn't tell her.

I'm not going to expand any more on what she said, as clearly on here any non US athlete who gets a penalty gets no leeway at all, so there's no point.


I've never heard of a pro that has got a penalty and has gone "fair enough, I deserved that". Also when an official pings someone, they radio the penalty tent letting them know the race number and what the penalty is for so if the official on the bike didn't tell her, the officials in the tent would have known. Regardless there are different coloured cards and time penalties for the various offences, so she would have known whether it was for blocking or drafting. And also officials will normally warn someone if they are creeping in to the draft zone. If you're sitting at 10m, you will most likely get a warning. I think, like most pros, she's pissy she trained for this race for months and the penalty cost her big.



They said in the broadcast there were no warnings being given.

Well if it was blatant drafting then there should be no warning. She said:

“So I thought that’s just great, I will get the chance to ride [with that group]. Especially with Daniela, that was something I was dreaming of."

So I'm guessing it was a drafting penalty.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [TulkasTri] [ In reply to ]
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TulkasTri wrote:
TulkasTri wrote:
Who was the last male rookie to win Kona in his debut on the island? Was it Dave Scott in 1980? Molina in '88? Luc Van Lierde in '96?


I’ve been doing some more research and it looks like it was Van Lierde in ‘96, and before him it was Allen in 1980.

So that means only two rookies have won Kona?

Do you mean male rookies?

If not, Chrissie Wellington also won as a Kona rookie.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
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craigj532 wrote:
TulkasTri wrote:
TulkasTri wrote:
Who was the last male rookie to win Kona in his debut on the island? Was it Dave Scott in 1980? Molina in '88? Luc Van Lierde in '96?


I’ve been doing some more research and it looks like it was Van Lierde in ‘96, and before him it was Allen in 1980.

So that means only two rookies have won Kona?

Do you mean male rookies?

If not, Chrissie Wellington also won as a Kona rookie.

Yes, male rookie.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Cue Family Guy's "grind my gears" segment with Peter Griffin....Whenever I hear an announcer or someone say "well if X athlete did not have the penalty they'd be in ......". For 98% of the time, the call is justified, like officials aren't after anyone (unless you are Sam Laidlow tommorrow...wink wink from the practice swim issue). I also think that even if athletes aren't "warned", I don't think the 1st sec of an infraction an official is dishing out penalties. For the most part they are very practical and so if your riding 10m back for several mins, you deserve that penalty. I dont think officials roll up on an athlete see an infraction and immediately are dishing out penalties. And as you say, athletes never do anything wrong, it's always an bad call by the officials (pink / not pink...you decide).

Brooks Doughtie
-USAT Level II
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [bluefever] [ In reply to ]
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bluefever wrote:

Phillipp was clearly devastated and angry at the penalty. What she seemed most angry about was not even getting an explanation as to why - I can understand this sucks. She seemed genuinely confused, and without an explanation, how do you know the referee got it right? She said she asked, and they wouldn't tell her.

I'm not going to expand any more on what she said, as clearly on here any non US athlete who gets a penalty gets no leeway at all, so there's no point.

But she was visibly upset. I'm not German, but I felt terrible for her.

Why should pros get warnings? They're professionals. Amateurs getting warnings? By all means. But if this is your livelihood you should follow the rules instead of hoping the referee was feeling generous when they woke up.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
bluefever wrote:


Phillipp was clearly devastated and angry at the penalty. What she seemed most angry about was not even getting an explanation as to why - I can understand this sucks. She seemed genuinely confused, and without an explanation, how do you know the referee got it right? She said she asked, and they wouldn't tell her.

I'm not going to expand any more on what she said, as clearly on here any non US athlete who gets a penalty gets no leeway at all, so there's no point.

But she was visibly upset. I'm not German, but I felt terrible for her.


Why should pros get warnings? They're professionals. Amateurs getting warnings? By all means. But if this is your livelihood you should follow the rules instead of hoping the referee was feeling generous when they woke up.

I agree. I played baseball a good bit so the best analogy I can think of is in the MLB. A professional pitcher does not get a warning if they commit a balk. Doesn't matter if it is game 7 of the World Series in the bottom of the 9th with the bases loaded. If the pitcher flinches, the runners get to advance...no warnings. You're a professional and you know, or should know, the rules.

Same with professional triathletes and drafting on the bike. You know the rules and if you violate one, you should be called on it. Doesn't matter if it's Kona or any other race.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
bluefever wrote:


Phillipp was clearly devastated and angry at the penalty. What she seemed most angry about was not even getting an explanation as to why - I can understand this sucks. She seemed genuinely confused, and without an explanation, how do you know the referee got it right? She said she asked, and they wouldn't tell her.

I'm not going to expand any more on what she said, as clearly on here any non US athlete who gets a penalty gets no leeway at all, so there's no point.

But she was visibly upset. I'm not German, but I felt terrible for her.


Why should pros get warnings? They're professionals. Amateurs getting warnings? By all means. But if this is your livelihood you should follow the rules instead of hoping the referee was feeling generous when they woke up.


How about no warnings but a detailed explination of why it happened? Maybe not on course, but after the fact they should be able to get an explanation of why the penatly was issued. That should be a given.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [TulkasTri] [ In reply to ]
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Marshalls need body cameras like the police, (pink)

But more serious, don't most professional sports have challenges? Would have to define the process of course.

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com
http://www.endureiq.com
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
bluefever wrote:

Phillipp was clearly devastated and angry at the penalty. What she seemed most angry about was not even getting an explanation as to why - I can understand this sucks. She seemed genuinely confused, and without an explanation, how do you know the referee got it right? She said she asked, and they wouldn't tell her.

I'm not going to expand any more on what she said, as clearly on here any non US athlete who gets a penalty gets no leeway at all, so there's no point.

But she was visibly upset. I'm not German, but I felt terrible for her.

Why should pros get warnings? They're professionals. Amateurs getting warnings? By all means. But if this is your livelihood you should follow the rules instead of hoping the referee was feeling generous when they woke up.

I can't find where I wrote they should get warnings, sorry, I don't understand your question.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [bluefever] [ In reply to ]
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bluefever wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
bluefever wrote:


Phillipp was clearly devastated and angry at the penalty. What she seemed most angry about was not even getting an explanation as to why - I can understand this sucks. She seemed genuinely confused, and without an explanation, how do you know the referee got it right? She said she asked, and they wouldn't tell her.

I'm not going to expand any more on what she said, as clearly on here any non US athlete who gets a penalty gets no leeway at all, so there's no point.

But she was visibly upset. I'm not German, but I felt terrible for her.


Why should pros get warnings? They're professionals. Amateurs getting warnings? By all means. But if this is your livelihood you should follow the rules instead of hoping the referee was feeling generous when they woke up.


I can't find where I wrote they should get warnings, sorry, I don't understand your question.

Think that was directed at me. Normally if I've crept in to the draft zone, sitting at say 11m or whatever, I'll get a warning from an official which I think is the smart thing to do. It's hard to know what is exactly 12m. If you're way too close then, yeah, penalty straight away. But as previously said warnings probably shouldn't apply for pros. If they're going to push the envelope then they have to pay the price. Not sure what happens if it ends up 20m like Lionel is trying to orchestrate for Kona 2023, that will be nigh on impossible to gauge 20m.
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Re: Kona Women's Race-Day Thread [Bryan!] [ In reply to ]
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Bryan! wrote:
JackStraw13 wrote:
Quinny98 wrote:
timr wrote:
Agree. Complete disrespect for Chelsea.


Maybe it’s because LCB where’s Hokas lol.
Anyways. Great race. Anne into 3rd


Lucy is an ASICS sponsored athlete.


Looks like she’s in Vaporflys. May not see anybody on the podium in Hoka’s.
She was wearing the Asics Metaspeed + shoes... they have a new blue/green colorway.

Podium was Asics Metaspeed, Asics Metaspeed + and Nike Alphafly (2? maybe)... so yes zero Hokas.


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