Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [test] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
We're still trying to get our hands on the full arbitration decision, as that's the basis of fact here.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rrheisler wrote:
We're still trying to get our hands on the full arbitration decision, as that's the basis of fact here.

Having a feeling NDA maybe in play
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm a little baffled as to why it is confidential with it involving a public race, and other athletes declared winner, etc. It would seem like this has zero business staying "behind closed doors". The whole thing comes off badly.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm not familiar with this body but most arbitration proceedings are presumptively confidential (the ICDR, CAS, etc). Typically if both parties agree to release the findings/award they can. The public interest doesn't come into play though. (This all goes out the window in the US, where arbitrations are usually just step one and a lawsuit over the arbitration follows).
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Geronimo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
CAS rulings are confidential? I've seemed to read a lot of WADA ruling reports in my time in the sport, but maybe that wasn't the "hearing" details, etc.

An ruling like this has imo no business staying private when it involves more than just the defender. When a race result is on the line, nah "confidential" imo goes out the window. For the sanctity of fair play.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Feb 3, 23 13:03
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
B_Doughtie wrote:
CAS rulings are confidential? I've seemed to read a lot of WADA ruling reports in my time in the sport, but maybe that wasn't the "hearing" details, etc. A ruling like this has imo no business staying private when it involves more than just the defender. When a race result is on the line, nah "confidential" imo goes out the window. For the sanctity of fair play.
The key issue here which needs examination (preferably with some basis in fact) is the grounds for the DQ being overturned which has been announced as 'didn't affect the result of the race'. When an infringement, which the Head Referee deems merits DQ on the day, is recognised in fact, as in this case (there was, according to the ruling, 'outside assistance') then to overturn the DQ on the above grounds is an aberration, but sets a precedent.
And this 'outside assistance' judgement was made, not in the heat of competition by an inexperienced mobile ref but after the podium ffs, by the head referee. So not made lightly. Still think the 'Al Capone' prosecution/guilt may have legs, but looks like we may never properly know.
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
They're not necessarily "all confidential" in practice. They're just confidential under the rules unless both parties agree to release (or I think CAS has an internal mechanism to do so). Like WADA publishes some CAS rulings, so presumably that's pursuant to a procedure.

I understand what you're saying, and don't disagree, just trying to give some color to the mechanism of arbitration. A personal gripe of mine has been that the run of the mill arbitration ruling is usually confidential, which in practice means that there's very little caselaw in certain areas or industries, particularly internationally.
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thoes shared an Instagram post to promote a podcast interview where she talks about the race and the DQ. Sounds like it's in German in case anyone here can listen.

https://www.instagram.com/...rce=ig_web_copy_link


We talk about her victory at Ironman Cork, her disqualification and recognition of her victory there, as well as the subsequent legal dispute, in which Svenja was re-claimed the victory by a court in early January. Here she gives deep insights into her spiritual life during this time.

Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [test] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
says she never got a penalty from a race official , volunteer female lead cyclist on the run, reported after finish line, that she got outside assistance on run.
no mention what then happened , only says that she got news on December 30 that she won her appeal .

at the end nothing makes really much sense.
and i guess in dubio pre reo.
Last edited by: pk: Feb 22, 23 7:58
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [pk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Uhm… pretty please tell me what I got wrong as per below:

1. You listened to the podcast.
2. In the podcast, Svenja talks at length about IM Ireland, her DQ, aftermath, appeal and overturn, etc.
3. She STILL doesn’t say what sort of outside assistance she was charged with (and the arbitration court or whatever the court is called confirmed to have happened but have had no impact on the race outcome).

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [kajet] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
She's either stunningly bad at PR or the outside assistance was something embarrassing/egregious. Refusing to say what happened is a surefire way to get people to think it was something bad.

"In the heat of competition I made a mistake and (took water from a friend/took a draft/whatever). As professionals our job is to push the limits not just of our abilities but of the rules, each of us going all out for the win. Even though the arbitration court has ruled it had no impact on the race I still feel terrible about stepping over the line and don't want it to define the my race, let alone my career. I apologize to my fellow competitors, fans, sponsors, and family. More to come in 2023!"
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [kajet] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
1 yes
2 no she does not talk at lenght about it in fact not at all what procedures happened after race day . she talks a about what happend on race day and then that she got news on the 30th december she won the race .

3
i guess it would be a bit hard for her to say what outside assistance she got when she says she got no outside assistance ....
she says that she never got a penalty from an official .
she says she did not get outside assistance.
says lead bike volunteer for the run reported outside assistance to officials after she had crossed the finish line
to me this sounds strange but we will never get the proper answer that is clear as they obviously have signed a NDA agreement .
but i would be inclined to say, had and official given her a penalty she would never have made it to the flower ceremony in the first place , but she did,if i rember correctly that was 30 min after she crossed the finish line and i guess only a competitor could have made a protest within the hour and since no athlete has come forward that is unlikely , hard to say if this is all correct but we have no evidence against it .


she also claimed that they did not want to tell her what they thought the infringement was to justify the dq..


anyway 2 versions from 2 sides .
my 2 cents, i guess ,the final sentence that the outside assistance had no impact on the result was more to keep face for both sides .
Thoes won, this is the only clear thing , and the other side was not thrown under the bus.
Last edited by: pk: Feb 22, 23 10:51
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [pk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
To me outside assistance especially at a non televised event is likely going to be fairly hard to get dinged by an official considering the run course covers so much ground and athletes spread out etc.

It just feels weird. The whole thing. And then the finality of it yet it can’t be spoken about. Just seems wrong all around.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [pk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
pk wrote:
she does not talk at lenght about it in fact not at all
i guess it would be a bit hard for her to say what outside assistance she got when she says she got no outside assistance
says lead bike volunteer for the run reported outside assistance to officials after she had crossed the finish line
to me this sounds strange but we will never get the proper answer that is clear as they obviously have signed a NDA agreement .
she also claimed that they did not want to tell her what they thought the infringement was to justify the dq.
Thoes won, this is the only clear thing , and the other side was not thrown under the bus.
If the race referee listened to the lead bike volunteer and believed them, then there and then he/she had to decide whether that merited DQ. The referee decided that: DQ: doubt they did this lightly.
The grounds the appellate body (above TriIreland) used to un-DQ her were not specified in the IM rules. Ditching litter 'doesn't affect the race result' - so will that be grounds for appeal against DQ for that? (Please pass answer to Joe Skipper who didn't take his punctured tube with him after replacing it. - IM not quite sure (?UK)).
The issue here is not the DQ or the un-DQ; it's the precedence established.
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [pk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you for taking the time to, er, explain this 😂

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ajax Bay wrote:
pk wrote:

she does not talk at lenght about it in fact not at all
i guess it would be a bit hard for her to say what outside assistance she got when she says she got no outside assistance
says lead bike volunteer for the run reported outside assistance to officials after she had crossed the finish line
to me this sounds strange but we will never get the proper answer that is clear as they obviously have signed a NDA agreement .
she also claimed that they did not want to tell her what they thought the infringement was to justify the dq.
Thoes won, this is the only clear thing , and the other side was not thrown under the bus.

If the race referee listened to the lead bike volunteer and believed them, then there and then he/she had to decide whether that merited DQ. The referee decided that: DQ: doubt they did this lightly.
The grounds the appellate body (above TriIreland) used to un-DQ her were not specified in the IM rules. Ditching litter 'doesn't affect the race result' - so will that be grounds for appeal against DQ for that? (Please pass answer to Joe Skipper who didn't take his punctured tube with him after replacing it. - IM not quite sure (?UK)).
The issue here is not the DQ or the un-DQ; it's the precedence established.

do you have evidence of littering?
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Ireland FPRO Winner DQd? [pk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
pk wrote:
at the end nothing makes really much sense.
and i guess in dubio pro reo.


I guess you can claim this for today





"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
Quote Reply

Prev Next