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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
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Huh, thanks. Scrolling to the maps works on my phone, but the original device (a Chromebook) never loaded the bottom of the page with the map links - and still does not. Weird. And on my phone, clicking the bike course image generates a larger size version of...the swim course. Maybe I need to reboot everything! Thanks for the help!
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [giorgitd] [ In reply to ]
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giorgitd wrote:
Huh, thanks. Scrolling to the maps works on my phone, but the original device (a Chromebook) never loaded the bottom of the page with the map links - and still does not. Weird. And on my phone, clicking the bike course image generates a larger size version of...the swim course. Maybe I need to reboot everything! Thanks for the help!

Yeah I noticed that clicking the 100m bike gets you a larger version of the 100k swim. They have a broken link

-----------------------------------
2x IRONMAN Finisher
4x IRONMAN 70.3 Finisher
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
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The 2022 Multisport National Champs were held at the same venue. Maps from that event are here. Even for the sprint distance, the run was a loop around the lake and not the PTO out and back, Not sure about this choice wrt spectators - but maybe they wanted to avoid having the run on the same course as the bike on the portion of Las Colinas that adjoins the lake? The bike courses are similar, but the National Champs course avoids the weird extra 'fingers' with the 180 degree turns at the ends. Clearly just trying to nail the distance given the constraints of the available roads. Seems like doing one extra loop on the Kinwest Pkwy section might be the right length to remove the 'fingers'. Or maybe bike handling skills are an intentional part of the race! IIRC, the road surface was mostly ok, but there was a bump with an expansion joint or something similar on Las Colinas just after the turnaround before E. Royal (sprint distance map). A couple of crashes there, maybe triggered by the ejected bottles on the road? I had to avoid a bottle on the course there on one lap - there were other bottles in the gutter...
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
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Feels like an ITU course. Does anyone have the feeling the PTO might be saying with regard to the drafting issues, "if you can't solve it, legalize it"?

Could the reason for the UCI bike usage by some pro athletes be that behind the scenes the pros are involved in discussions about changing the rules?
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
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Tribike53 wrote:
giorgitd wrote:
Huh, thanks. Scrolling to the maps works on my phone, but the original device (a Chromebook) never loaded the bottom of the page with the map links - and still does not. Weird. And on my phone, clicking the bike course image generates a larger size version of...the swim course. Maybe I need to reboot everything! Thanks for the help!


Yeah I noticed that clicking the 100m bike gets you a larger version of the 100k swim. They have a broken link
Links 'mended'.
https://protriathletes.org/...ts/pto-tour/us-open/
Scroll down and choose 'Race Courses' and 100km and scroll down:
https://protriathletes.org/...8/AG100k_Bike80k.pdf
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
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Also just noticed Pro Men race at 2:30 p.m. What’s the reasoning for subjecting them to that heat?? Las Colinas is a concrete jungle and have to believe temps on the run on the pavement will top 100.
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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The 100km AG event that precedes the men's race. That timeline allows each race to have full support of officials/volunteers/PTO staff, without stretching them too thin. It also gives each race the "spot light" and not just being all about the pro's, by putting them in an more ideal time slot and against the AG race.

Brooks Doughtie
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Aug 11, 22 20:59
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
Also just noticed Pro Men race at 2:30 p.m. What’s the reasoning for subjecting them to that heat?? Las Colinas is a concrete jungle and have to believe temps on the run on the pavement will top 100.

Interesting, where did you see that posted? Is there a start time posted for the AGers?

-----------------------------------
2x IRONMAN Finisher
4x IRONMAN 70.3 Finisher
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
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Tribike53 wrote:
DFW_Tri wrote:
Also just noticed Pro Men race at 2:30 p.m. What’s the reasoning for subjecting them to that heat?? Las Colinas is a concrete jungle and have to believe temps on the run on the pavement will top 100.

Interesting, where did you see that posted? Is there a start time posted for the AGers?


Email from Playtri. May be on PTO website too. Could be for tv-related reasons. I’m fairly confident AGers will be at a typical early morning start time. If not, I’ll be driving do Discoman tri instead. Will be interesting to see turnout given other race that day in DfW. Very rare to see competing races on same day. And Discoman is a much better venue, just a farther drive for most.
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
Tribike53 wrote:
DFW_Tri wrote:
Also just noticed Pro Men race at 2:30 p.m. What’s the reasoning for subjecting them to that heat?? Las Colinas is a concrete jungle and have to believe temps on the run on the pavement will top 100.

Interesting, where did you see that posted? Is there a start time posted for the AGers?


Email from Playtri. May be on PTO website too. Could be for tv-related reasons. I’m fairly confident AGers will be at a typical early morning start time. If not, I’ll be driving do Discoman tri instead. Will be interesting to see turnout given other race that day in DfW. Very rare to see competing races on same day. And Discoman is a much better venue, just a farther drive for most.

Thanks, good ideas

I’ve read every inch of the PTO website looking for start times, rules, packet pickup info, etc and all it says is you’ll be emailed these things and more a few weeks before the event. The only rule on the site is that the draft zone is a whopping 20m!

-----------------------------------
2x IRONMAN Finisher
4x IRONMAN 70.3 Finisher
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [HoustonTri(er)] [ In reply to ]
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HoustonTri(er) wrote:
I'd be interested in any comments about the course/roads after your ride this weekend.
My road bike is nothing fancy so would rather ride the tri bike unless it really is a course that benefits a road bike.

As promised, I went out to do some race recon today on the recently released maps. I rode from my house to Levy Event Plaza (transition), did two full loops of the course, and then rode home. Overall, I have to say I’m very happy with the course. This is probably more detail than anyone wanted but here goes:

Course is 3 loops, 80km/49.7mi total. Each loop is therefore ~16.6mi/26.7km. It’s all concrete (small section of newly paved asphalt) on roads with 3 lanes in both directions. In some short instances it drops down to 2 lanes in both directions but again they are very brief. I believe roads will be entirely closed to traffic for us.

You'll probably want to have this open as you read my sections: https://protriathletes.org/...8/AG100k_Bike80k.pdf


Transition:

Transition is in a nice field called Levy Event Plaza right on the water of Lake Carolyn. It’s a good-sized field/park area that can easily hold the field size the PTO is expecting. The field has good access right to the water (so no long run from swim exit to bike exit) and two nice large gates that will serve as bike in and bike out without any issues.


Downtown:
- First 1.5 miles out of transition are in downtown Las Colinas on Las Colinas Blvd. This is a rather urban area but still 2-3 lanes wide on both sides of the road. Tons of great restaurants, shops, hotels, etc. There is even a freshii should Lionel show up for this. Road rises ever so slightly in this area, maybe 1%.


Colwell:
- At 1.5 mi mark you go under the DART rail line/highway and enter a more suburban environment. After the first turn at mile 2 onto Colwell Blvd the right lane gets a tad rough with some torn up concrete but its short and not terrible. Left lane appears ok but I didn't ride it.

W La Villita Blvd
- The Road continues to rise gently on Colwell Blvd and there is a big sweeping left turn at a stop sign onto W La Villita Blvd at mile 3.25. A small rise follows before the left turn back onto Las Colinas Blvd. Be careful when you make this left to not get into the furthest right lane where there is a giant bike eating gutter with some torn up road. This is probably the biggest red flag I could find on the course.
Image of gutter: https://i.imgur.com/6FAVOgg.jpg

Las Colinas South 1/Royal:
- After you avoid the gutter there is a very nice sweeping good quality road downhill at maybe 2-3% before the right onto Royal Lane. After this turn there is a short moderate 2-3% rise followed by a very nice 2% long straight downhill. This is probably the fastest part of this course so hammer it here.

Top Loop
- - Next is a right onto Parkridge Blvd. Slight rise here 1-2% before a nice left onto Kinwest Parkway. This has a moderate rise that eventually turns into beautifully smooth new asphalt for about a mile.
- - Making the right turn onto Royal Lane again brings some slightly torn up concrete but not too bad, its a bit bumpy.
- - First turn around is a left onto a small cross street and another quick left back onto Roytal so its not a fully 180. Its two 90s.
- - -Royal is then some down and flat until you must go back up the downhill you hit before. Its short and not steep. I never had to get out of the saddle.

Las Colinas Loop de Loop
- - A quick right onto Las Colinas Blvd saves you from continuing the royal hill and you enter what I’m calling the loop de loop section at mile mark 11.6-13.6
- - You do 2 u-turns in this 2 mile section (not counting the Colwell u-turn).
- - The first one seems easy as there is a slight rise just before it
- - The second has the potential to be the toughest on the course bc if I’m right about the course flow here we’ll probably be riding the wrong way back down Las Colinas here. See my guess map here:https://imgur.com/fWvMZwg
- - Las Colinas S is 3 lanes on both sides of the road with a giant park like median in-between.

Final Miles of the Loop
- - Another quick and relatively easy out and back on Colwell Blvd. Nothing to note here except the road has a lot of grooves in-between lanes where you can get a tire stuck so be careful when changing lanes on this road!
- - Right back onto Las Colinas and a nice 1% downhill into the urban section.
- The final u turn to continue onto loops 2,3, or back into transition is also easy to do.


Final Comments:
It’s a fast flat course with some gentle risers and sloping downhills. I never had to get out of the saddle, and I never thought it was even a little technical. The u-turns are not hard as there are plenty of lanes to do them over. It’s a TT bike course so don’t even think about brining a road bike. You’ll likely be in aero the whole time, even on the “climbs”.

Ill be running the run course tomorrow and can make a quick report on that but I don’t expect anything to come from it bc its fairly straightforward out and back.

Other images/video I took: https://imgur.com/a/WdgKDiT

-----------------------------------
2x IRONMAN Finisher
4x IRONMAN 70.3 Finisher
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks so much for doing this Tribike53! Very helpful especially since I'm coming from Ohio and was questioning the road/tri bike choice. Hopefully I'll be able to say thanks in person.
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [bjgwoody] [ In reply to ]
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bjgwoody wrote:
Thanks so much for doing this Tribike53! Very helpful especially since I'm coming from Ohio and was questioning the road/tri bike choice. Hopefully I'll be able to say thanks in person.


You’re welcome. I’m glad someone found it useful!

I did the run today and as expected not much to report. The area we run through is very nice. Lined on both sides with luxury apartments and an above ground rail line going through the middle. Two lanes both ways with the train in the middle, very little shade and probably none by the time we hit the run course.

https://i.imgur.com/w3SkrJx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3P6XDn8.jpg

It’s flat until you make the left onto promenade parkway where there is a slight 1-2% downhill. This road isn’t as built up so it’s kind of a slog and probably will be sans spectators to the turn around from here. Distance is about half a mile from turn to turn around.

You then have to run up that hill back to Lake Carolyn Parkway. It’s about 150m long but will be in full Sun too. I imagine most of the course will be full Sun but it felt worse on promenade.

https://i.imgur.com/ibVYrbx.jpg

If pros really are at 230 they are going to bake.

I tested the water with my hand it felt low 80s. Very calm. I found this sign funny:
https://i.imgur.com/TdeF0LI.jpg

-----------------------------------
2x IRONMAN Finisher
4x IRONMAN 70.3 Finisher
Last edited by: Tribike53: Aug 14, 22 12:07
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for yesterdays bike course review and todays run course review.
Your detailed course notes are very helpful and it’s good to hear that the mid section isn’t as tight as may have first looked. With this being 3 laps I could see this tight turns becoming a problem if there are riders of different speeds and handling ability coming into turns together, but with the expected lower number of competitors hopefully this won’t be a problem.
That water temp sounds about right - typical TX detention pond in summer.
Is the running surface concrete, asphalt, or other?
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
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Just noticed in the FAQ that they're now saying "It is highly likely it will be a non-wetsuit swim." So now they've done a complete 180 on the initial pitch of a wetsuit legal swim, but I think to any of us who are familiar with Dallas weather in September this isn't a surprise. Related question...how much faster is a swimskin compared to just swimming in my tri suit? I'm in the northeast now so not sure how much use a swimskin would get apart from maybe once a year.
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [swb384] [ In reply to ]
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Whoever came up with the timeline for these races clearly doesn't understand Dallas weather. I've only been here for a few months, but spent a lot of time in Texas from having lived here previously...2PM Start time for the male pros. Most amateurs will go home and not come back, shower etc. But if you're a pro, better be acclimated to heat and humidity. On the bright side, great conditional prep for Kona...

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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When should have the pro's started when PTO already stated they wanted separate races for AG and pro's?

ETA: The timeline are basically the same as any AG / pro race that aren't at the same time. AG's race in morning, pro's race later. Happens all the time at ITU events and is same time line as previous PTO events.

Brooks Doughtie
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Aug 29, 22 11:36
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [giorgitd] [ In reply to ]
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The 2022 Multisport National Champs were held at the same venue.


I was one of the Announcers for the USAT Multisports National Championships Festival in April this year. I had never been to this location before - but there were some distinct advantages to it.

- Lots of room and space at the actual Race Venue itself.

- Water RIGHT THERE, so distance from water exit to bikes in T1 is minimal.

- Loved the European Village layout to Los Colinas itself. Once at Hotel (which is VERY close to DFW airport), you can walk anywhere and everywhere. Great restaurants and coffee shops - all a short walk away!

- The way the courses were laid out in April, there was great options for Spectator viewing!

- Weather in April was perfect, warm but not blazing hot.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
When should have the pro's started when PTO already stated they wanted separate races for AG and pro's?

ETA: The timeline are basically the same as any AG / pro race that aren't at the same time. AG's race in morning, pro's race later. Happens all the time at ITU events and is same time line as previous PTO events.

Which could be ok if you did this like end of October. But it will still be upper 90s if not 100 mid-September. Perhaps they just should not have made it an amateur event and joined the race organization space?

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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Avg high is 89.4 so likely not as extremely hot as you predict. Just a tick above the temps that will likely happen in Kona.

I kinda get the feeling you’d have bashed pto if they went pro only race just based on your commentary….so shrugs.

Who’s complaining about the pro time? It’s done due to AG morning race. Making everyone happy, so I’m not sure what the big deal is. These are professional athletes they’ll deal with it.

Brooks Doughtie
-USAT Level II
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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What's the water quality like? Pond-ish as Edmonton was described or better? I'm used to swimming in green Ohio lakes so pond-ish would be normal for us. Of course I'm not expecting Lake Placid Mirror Lake clear either.
Last edited by: bjgwoody: Aug 29, 22 17:27
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [bjgwoody] [ In reply to ]
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What's the water quality like?


I can't say what it is like now, but back at the end of April it seemed reasonably good.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
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Tribike53 wrote:
bjgwoody wrote:
Thanks so much for doing this Tribike53! Very helpful especially since I'm coming from Ohio and was questioning the road/tri bike choice. Hopefully I'll be able to say thanks in person.


You’re welcome. I’m glad someone found it useful!

I did the run today and as expected not much to report. The area we run through is very nice. Lined on both sides with luxury apartments and an above ground rail line going through the middle. Two lanes both ways with the train in the middle, very little shade and probably none by the time we hit the run course.

https://i.imgur.com/w3SkrJx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3P6XDn8.jpg

It’s flat until you make the left onto promenade parkway where there is a slight 1-2% downhill. This road isn’t as built up so it’s kind of a slog and probably will be sans spectators to the turn around from here. Distance is about half a mile from turn to turn around.

You then have to run up that hill back to Lake Carolyn Parkway. It’s about 150m long but will be in full Sun too. I imagine most of the course will be full Sun but it felt worse on promenade.

https://i.imgur.com/ibVYrbx.jpg

If pros really are at 230 they are going to bake.

I tested the water with my hand it felt low 80s. Very calm. I found this sign funny:
https://i.imgur.com/TdeF0LI.jpg

Yeah swimming in “lake” Carolyn is a big no no, except when you congregate hundreds of athletes who pay a lot of money to be there. Then, somehow, the rules and water issues that they have had there before are suspended for a few hours!!
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [HoustonTri(er)] [ In reply to ]
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HoustonTri(er) wrote:
Thanks for yesterdays bike course review and todays run course review.
Your detailed course notes are very helpful and it’s good to hear that the mid section isn’t as tight as may have first looked. With this being 3 laps I could see this tight turns becoming a problem if there are riders of different speeds and handling ability coming into turns together, but with the expected lower number of competitors hopefully this won’t be a problem.
That water temp sounds about right - typical TX detention pond in summer.
Is the running surface concrete, asphalt, or other?

Sorry just seeing your reply today. Run surface is all concrete.

-----------------------------------
2x IRONMAN Finisher
4x IRONMAN 70.3 Finisher
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Re: PTO US Open Course Maps Released [Tribike53] [ In reply to ]
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Super helpful; thank you 👍
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