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Re: Exceptions for life and health of the mother [velocomp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
burnthesheep
Aug 17, 22 11:39
Post #26 of 35 (557 views)
velocomp wrote:
Moonrocket wrote:
chaparral wrote:
Moonrocket wrote:
Or carry a baby to term because you have no parents???

https://www.yahoo.com/...n-not-183703176.html


Totally logical that she is not mature enough to have an abortion, but mature enough to carry a child to term and become a mother.

Call me crazy, but I don’t think judges should make rulings while they have serious head trauma.


Or force kids who already have a huge trauma load into more for political gains.


Messed up situation. But I have to ask... I read the article. It said that her guardian supports the abortion. And then it says that either a parent or guardian must sign off. So what is the problem?

I do think she should be able to get an abortion (even though I'm pro life). But I do believe that someone under 18 should be required to have a parent or guardian sign off.

The common conflict of interest brought up on NPR was cases of abuse within the family or family's circle (friends/connections) for which the family is guilty and forcing the kid and not signing/consenting. Not necessarily just the stereotypical horny pregnant teenager in high school.
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Re: Exceptions for life and health of the mother [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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velocomp
Aug 17, 22 13:05
Post #27 of 35 (540 views)
burnthesheep wrote:
velocomp wrote:
Moonrocket wrote:
chaparral wrote:
Moonrocket wrote:
Or carry a baby to term because you have no parents???

https://www.yahoo.com/...n-not-183703176.html


Totally logical that she is not mature enough to have an abortion, but mature enough to carry a child to term and become a mother.

Call me crazy, but I don’t think judges should make rulings while they have serious head trauma.


Or force kids who already have a huge trauma load into more for political gains.


Messed up situation. But I have to ask... I read the article. It said that her guardian supports the abortion. And then it says that either a parent or guardian must sign off. So what is the problem?

I do think she should be able to get an abortion (even though I'm pro life). But I do believe that someone under 18 should be required to have a parent or guardian sign off.


The common conflict of interest brought up on NPR was cases of abuse within the family or family's circle (friends/connections) for which the family is guilty and forcing the kid and not signing/consenting. Not necessarily just the stereotypical horny pregnant teenager in high school.

But the article states that the guardian supports it.
Quote Reply
Re: Exceptions for life and health of the mother [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
slink
Aug 18, 22 0:18
Post #28 of 35 (501 views)
windywave wrote:
WannaB wrote:

Windy had mentioned above a scenario where two physicians might sign off on a situation. That is typically what we might do in complex and controversial (for lack of a better term) decisions. But for this, the system decided against, as this exposes two providers to potential charges instead of just one.

Wouldn't two independent medical opinions mitigate the risk?

Also won't the prosecution need expert witnesses to make the case which I imagine will be hard to come by (at least unimpeachable ones)

When two medical opinions are not sufficient:
https://www.nola.com/...69-a3570eeed885.html

Woman in Louisana denied abortion for fetus with no skull.
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Re: Exceptions for life and health of the mother [slink] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kiki
Aug 18, 22 3:16
Post #29 of 35 (480 views)
imo the psychological effect of gestating such a fetus to term, and then literally exposing it to certain death (possibly with a degree of sentience/pain perception it might not have had earlier), is the definition of unusual and cruel.

at least in the middle ages women wouldn't have known they were condemned to give birth to that degree of deformity.
Quote Reply
Re: Exceptions for life and health of the mother [slink] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kay Serrar
Aug 18, 22 4:06
Post #30 of 35 (473 views)
slink wrote:
windywave wrote:
WannaB wrote:


Windy had mentioned above a scenario where two physicians might sign off on a situation. That is typically what we might do in complex and controversial (for lack of a better term) decisions. But for this, the system decided against, as this exposes two providers to potential charges instead of just one.


Wouldn't two independent medical opinions mitigate the risk?

Also won't the prosecution need expert witnesses to make the case which I imagine will be hard to come by (at least unimpeachable ones)


When two medical opinions are not sufficient:
https://www.nola.com/...69-a3570eeed885.html

Woman in Louisana denied abortion for fetus with no skull.

Essentially legislators and lawyers making decisions that belong to doctors and patients. This country has been so fucked up by the GOP and windy refuses to acknowledge it.
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Re: Exceptions for life and health of the mother [slink] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
windywave
Aug 18, 22 5:25
Post #31 of 35 (457 views)
slink wrote:
windywave wrote:
WannaB wrote:

Windy had mentioned above a scenario where two physicians might sign off on a situation. That is typically what we might do in complex and controversial (for lack of a better term) decisions. But for this, the system decided against, as this exposes two providers to potential charges instead of just one.

Wouldn't two independent medical opinions mitigate the risk?

Also won't the prosecution need expert witnesses to make the case which I imagine will be hard to come by (at least unimpeachable ones)

When two medical opinions are not sufficient:
https://www.nola.com/...69-a3570eeed885.html

Woman in Louisana denied abortion for fetus with no skull.

Since it is seemingly a bureaucratic snafu I'll wager the next case like this will have a different outcome (possibly even this one although unlikely)

https://www.wwno.org/...ortion-ban?_amp=true

It's fucked up but there will be a learning curve although I am a bit surprised this wasn't leveraged
Quote:
A profound and irremediable congenital or chromosomal anomaly existing in the unborn child that is incompatible with sustaining life after birth in reasonable medical judgment as certified by two physicians that are licensed to practice in the State of Louisiana.
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Re: Exceptions for life and health of the mother [velocomp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
velocomp
Aug 18, 22 9:34
Post #32 of 35 (437 views)
o.k., a very good write up on NPR.
https://www.npr.org/...ure-parental-consent

Interesting notes:
1. The article points out that this case has nothing to do with RVW decision. Parental consent has been around for the last 50 years.
2. They note that she was representing herself.
3. Said she was not mature enough to make the decision (yet was smart enough to file her case with the court)??? Was someone or some organization assisting her for political reasons?)
4. Again after losing her case in courts, without an attorney was able to navigate getting an appeal? I assume quickly, because this is kind of a time sensitive issue....
5. Court is willing to hear it again.
6. Claims in court docs that her guardian is fine with what ever her decisions is. So why did she need to go to court. Just have guardian sign consent...

Just a bunch of things that just aren't adding up for me. I'm not saying this isn't real. Just isn't logical.
Quote Reply
Re: Exceptions for life and health of the mother [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Moonrocket
Aug 18, 22 10:20
Post #33 of 35 (421 views)
As you keep telling us that we should not be worried it will all work out the stories are pouring in. Here’s another.

https://www.businessinsider.com/...-he-voted-for-2022-8

I hope like the guy in the story the reality of what they have actually done for women’s healthcare will change some minds - so all of the unnecessary suffering they have created will not be in vain.
Quote Reply
Re: Exceptions for life and health of the mother [velocomp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
slowguy
Aug 18, 22 10:46
Post #34 of 35 (409 views)
velocomp wrote:
o.k., a very good write up on NPR.
https://www.npr.org/...ure-parental-consent

Interesting notes:
1. The article points out that this case has nothing to do with RVW decision. Parental consent has been around for the last 50 years.
2. They note that she was representing herself.
3. Said she was not mature enough to make the decision (yet was smart enough to file her case with the court)??? Was someone or some organization assisting her for political reasons?)
4. Again after losing her case in courts, without an attorney was able to navigate getting an appeal? I assume quickly, because this is kind of a time sensitive issue....
5. Court is willing to hear it again.
6. Claims in court docs that her guardian is fine with what ever her decisions is. So why did she need to go to court. Just have guardian sign consent...

Just a bunch of things that just aren't adding up for me. I'm not saying this isn't real. Just isn't logical.

Additionally, it sounds like the original judge may have been trying to give the girl some extra time to consider her decision, because the girl was inconsistent in her argument, and appeared traumatized by the death of a friend on the day she was in front of the court.
Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
Quote Reply
Re: Exceptions for life and health of the mother [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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trail
Aug 19, 22 11:35
Post #35 of 35 (372 views)
“The harm to the body of women and people capable of pregnancy in not issuing the injunction could not be more real, clear, present and dangerous to the court,” Oakland County Judge Jacob Cunningham said during his ruling Friday.

Go Michigan judicial system.
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