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Re: Training in the Heat [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
boobooaboo wrote:
Made the mistake of doing a hard and hilly ride in heat index of 111 last week in Dallas. Recovery was brutal, but I feel like I'm used to it now.


One of the scariest moments of my life was a long ultra ride in ~120F heat in the remote Arizona desert. I was totally fine until I flatted. But then as I was changing the flat, with brutally hot asphalt reflecting heat back onto me, and a total loss of convective cooling while sitting still, things went downhill quick. Fortunately I had a buddy there, and we had a SAG car only a few miles away. But I was veering on the edge of unconsciousness, and if I've been alone, pretty sure I'd be dead.


It is crazy how quickly you can lose it when it is really bad. I tend to do well with heat because I cautiously ease myself in to it and for the past few years I've been living in various forms of it. Now its the high heat / high humidity stuff which is entirely new to me. Best described as "oppressive" by the weather people and I'd agree.

One occurrence as a youngster messed me up. There had been heat waves and I was playing in outdoor futbol tournaments where we'd do 3 matches a day. I was the central back and never came out of games. Toward the end of the second day I remember getting confused, walking off the pitch and thinking it was strange that I wasn't sweating. I don't remember why I was walking off the pitch at all though. I woke up some time later under a tent, in my underwear with ice all over me. Quite a confusing return to consciousness!

It took me a week to feel cognitively correct. I had a concussion later in life and the effects of these two events felt the same to me.
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Re: Training in the Heat [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
Toward the end of the second day I remember getting confused, walking off the pitch and thinking it was strange that I wasn't sweating. I don't remember why I was walking off the pitch at all though.

I wonder if, in your delirium, you imagined hearing a whistle and thinking 'that's it, time to go?'

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Training in the Heat [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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My coach told me he was yelling at me as I casually walked off during play until he saw my eyes and realized I wasn't there. Apparently I just sat down and went out.
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Re: Training in the Heat [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, that supports my "Imaginary Whistle" theory

If you had been aware of the game situation, you might've waited until a real whistle then run off and asked to be subbed out

I could be wrong, I wasn't there

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Training in the Heat [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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The theory adds up. This hot cold case has been closed. ;)
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Re: Training in the Heat [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Just a few things to add: I currently live in a very hot AND humid environment. I have lived in a very hot and dry environment. The middle east.


Hot and dry, lets say 115 degrees is hot, but not near as bad or dangerous as 100 degrees and 80% humidity. Dry heat = evaporation and heat loss. Wet heat there is no evaporation and heat loss. You die faster.

Anything above a dew point of 65 and your screwed. It really doesn't matter how you train. It's all bad. Below that point you have a lot of wiggle room and you can adjust your training accordingly.

Finally...I can attest to using a Core. The thing simply works.
Last edited by: Rideon77: Aug 11, 22 6:44
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Re: Training in the Heat [Rideon77] [ In reply to ]
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For the first time in my life I tried seriously training a few days when the dew point was in the low 70s and the temp was 90F. I just have never experienced anything like it. It was almost hard to breath the air in. It didn't matter my speed or the wind, I could not evaporate sweat or dissipate heat.
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Re: Training in the Heat [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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On a whim [or a dare, I forget which] I ran a spur-of-the-moment 5K in Palm Springs in June, 88° at 8AM

Dry heat, my ass. Actually, it was dried salt on my ass. I could have rimmed a Gatorita glass from my shorts

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Training in the Heat [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
For the first time in my life I tried seriously training a few days when the dew point was in the low 70s and the temp was 90F. I just have never experienced anything like it. It was almost hard to breath the air in. It didn't matter my speed or the wind, I could not evaporate sweat or dissipate heat.

On Monday it was 92 and raining/drizzling. The rain came because the cold air (92) hit warm air (98).

It was unreal.
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Re: Training in the Heat [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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That was something that amazed me out there

A few times, in the evening, we would see a rain shower or even a thunderstorm form in the distance. The streaks of rain would come down from the cloud, then fade away, as the heat from the desert evaporated the precipitation

There was even a rainbow once

I will admit, it was pretty cool

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Training in the Heat [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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https://dumbrunner.com/...nhabitable-hellscape

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A local woman woke early this morning to complete her five-mile run while temperatures were still relatively cool, Dumb Runner has learned, as the forecast called for yet another day of triple-digit highs — extreme heat that’s becoming more common due to climate change, which poses an existential threat not just to humanity but to life on earth as we know it.

“It’s good to get it done early,” said Charlene Shiherlis, 37, who is training for a fall half-marathon. “Later in the day, the heat is just brutal.”

Bonus points if you recognize her name

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Training in the Heat [Rideon77] [ In reply to ]
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Rideon77 wrote:

Anything above a due point of 65 and your screwed. It really doesn't matter how you train. It's all bad. Below that point you have a lot of wiggle room and you can adjust your training accordingly.

Finally...I can attest to using a Core. The thing simply works.

65?!!? 65 would feel like the arctic!

I've been in 72-75 the last two months. Doesn't matter the time of day. Absolute death march just trying to run 7:45-8:00 min/mile pace (I've walked back home after just 2 miles a couple of times).

DP dropped to 67 last Sunday after a storm, and I went out and ran 3 miles at 6:30 pace for the first time since May.

This morning, dew point of 72 again. 8:00 min/pace was death. The difference is absolutely gargantuan.
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Re: Training in the Heat [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
It was almost hard to breath the air in. It didn't matter my speed or the wind, I could not evaporate sweat or dissipate heat.

This is it for me. Not the legs, my chest. I genuinely feel like I'm suffocating, and I can't get enough air.. HR is 15-20 bpm higher than a similar pace in winter.

I'm instantly sweating, and I use a CORE and my body temp at lower speeds doesn't rise very quickly after a couple of months of training in it all the time, but I just can't seem to breathe.
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Re: Training in the Heat [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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We had some thunderstorms roll through here in the early morning. It was still drizzling and about 72* when I left the house at 6AM

I shook some rainwater off the low-hanging branches on my cool-down stroll around the block as an impromptu shower

It was glorious

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Training in the Heat [cielo] [ In reply to ]
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Yea that really sucks.

A dew point of 65 is where sweat stops evaporating. Every point above that "feel" exponentially worse. It's a much larger suck fest compared to dry heat at a much higher temp.
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Re: Training in the Heat [cielo] [ In reply to ]
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cielo wrote:
Rideon77 wrote:


Anything above a due point of 65 and your screwed. It really doesn't matter how you train. It's all bad. Below that point you have a lot of wiggle room and you can adjust your training accordingly.

Finally...I can attest to using a Core. The thing simply works.


65?!!? 65 would feel like the arctic!

I've been in 72-75 the last two months. Doesn't matter the time of day. Absolute death march just trying to run 7:45-8:00 min/mile pace (I've walked back home after just 2 miles a couple of times).

DP dropped to 67 last Sunday after a storm, and I went out and ran 3 miles at 6:30 pace for the first time since May.

This morning, dew point of 72 again. 8:00 min/pace was death. The difference is absolutely gargantuan.

Yeah 65 would be awesome.

Long run this morning in Mississippi. Started at 5:45, temp was 75 dew point 74 humidity 96%. Par for the course this time of year. 20.5 miles at 6:20 pace, average HR was 120. You just get used to it.

Let food be thy medicine...
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Re: Training in the Heat [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]
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JackStraw13 wrote:
cielo wrote:
Rideon77 wrote:


Anything above a due point of 65 and your screwed. It really doesn't matter how you train. It's all bad. Below that point you have a lot of wiggle room and you can adjust your training accordingly.

Finally...I can attest to using a Core. The thing simply works.


65?!!? 65 would feel like the arctic!

I've been in 72-75 the last two months. Doesn't matter the time of day. Absolute death march just trying to run 7:45-8:00 min/mile pace (I've walked back home after just 2 miles a couple of times).

DP dropped to 67 last Sunday after a storm, and I went out and ran 3 miles at 6:30 pace for the first time since May.

This morning, dew point of 72 again. 8:00 min/pace was death. The difference is absolutely gargantuan.


Yeah 65 would be awesome.

Long run this morning in Mississippi. Started at 5:45, temp was 75 dew point 74 humidity 96%. Par for the course this time of year. 20.5 miles at 6:20 pace, average HR was 120. You just get used to it.

The text book definition of a #humblebrag

In search of the righteous life... we all fall down
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Re: Training in the Heat [ In reply to ]
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Replying generally. It's been hot/humid where I am lately. Marine friend shared these guidelines.




These seem a bit conservative? e.g. Black flag condition and physical training suspended starting at 90degrees?

https://www.ready.marines.mil/...eat/Flag-Conditions/

I don't have a problem going slower when hot. Then again, that seems to happen anyway, regardless of temp :-(
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Re: Training in the Heat [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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A tool for finding the Marine flag conditions/WGBT from the previous post in your area: https://convergence.unc.edu/tools/wbgt/

Just a novice, but I think the numbers are a measure of heat, humidity, and other factors. Thus, 90 is not 90 degrees Fahrenheit.

A new fun tool to calculate misery.
Last edited by: apmoss: Aug 11, 22 14:05
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Re: Training in the Heat [apmoss] [ In reply to ]
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apmoss wrote:
A new fun tool to calculate misery.

Ooooooh! Just what we all need

So, just like they factor temp, humidity, wind, etc. for "Feels Like ..." temperature, could we use the RYG factors to add a multiple to the distance?

Like if you ride 20 miles, but you're in a Red situation, you can call it 22?


Just as fun side-note: we have a RYG Program Performance chart at work which we call "The Bob Marley Chart"

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Training in the Heat [apmoss] [ In reply to ]
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apmoss wrote:
A tool for finding the Marine flag conditions/WGBT from the previous post in your area:
https://convergence.unc.edu/tools/wbgt/

Just a novice, but I think the numbers are a measure of heat, humidity, and other factors. Thus, 90 is not 90 degrees Fahrenheit.

A new fun tool to calculate misery.


Your are correct, and thanks for that link. A WBGT of 90 is not 90 degrees. Found the a formula for the conversion. Easy if you have a special black globe thing too. ...(or use the app)

https://perryweather.com/...do-you-calculate-it/

How to Calculate WBGT
Wet-bulb globe temperature (in Fahrenheit) is calculated with the following equation:
WBGT = (0.7 * Tw) + (0.2 * Tg) + (0.1 * T)
In this formula, there are three important variables to note:
T = Temperature in Celsius
Tg = Globe Thermometer Temperature (in Celsius) – this is measured by a thermometer placed in a special black globe to estimate solar radiation without the effects of the light itself
Tw = Wet-bulb Temperature (in Celsius)
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Re: Training in the Heat [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
apmoss wrote:
A tool for finding the Marine flag conditions/WGBT from the previous post in your area:
https://convergence.unc.edu/tools/wbgt/

Just a novice, but I think the numbers are a measure of heat, humidity, and other factors. Thus, 90 is not 90 degrees Fahrenheit.

A new fun tool to calculate misery.


Your are correct, and thanks for that link. A WBGT of 90 is not 90 degrees. Found the a formula for the conversion. Easy if you have a special black globe thing too. ...(or use the app)

https://perryweather.com/...do-you-calculate-it/

How to Calculate WBGT
Wet-bulb globe temperature (in Fahrenheit) is calculated with the following equation:
WBGT = (0.7 * Tw) + (0.2 * Tg) + (0.1 * T)
In this formula, there are three important variables to note:
T = Temperature in Celsius
Tg = Globe Thermometer Temperature (in Celsius) – this is measured by a thermometer placed in a special black globe to estimate solar radiation without the effects of the light itself
Tw = Wet-bulb Temperature (in Celsius)

No offense to you or the inventor of WBGT, but that's incredibly convoluted and makes little intuitive sense. Everybody knows temperature, humidity. I guess sunlight intensity is hard to measure, but it also changes quickly. I have no idea if a Globe Thermometer Temperature of 100 degrees is very hot or just a sunny yet cool autumn day. Wet bulb temp is a little more intuitive but still very niche.
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Re: Training in the Heat [mathematics] [ In reply to ]
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mathematics wrote:
40-Tude wrote:
apmoss wrote:
A tool for finding the Marine flag conditions/WGBT from the previous post in your area:
https://convergence.unc.edu/tools/wbgt/

Just a novice, but I think the numbers are a measure of heat, humidity, and other factors. Thus, 90 is not 90 degrees Fahrenheit.

A new fun tool to calculate misery.


Your are correct, and thanks for that link. A WBGT of 90 is not 90 degrees. Found the a formula for the conversion. Easy if you have a special black globe thing too. ...(or use the app)

https://perryweather.com/...do-you-calculate-it/

How to Calculate WBGT
Wet-bulb globe temperature (in Fahrenheit) is calculated with the following equation:
WBGT = (0.7 * Tw) + (0.2 * Tg) + (0.1 * T)
In this formula, there are three important variables to note:
T = Temperature in Celsius
Tg = Globe Thermometer Temperature (in Celsius) – this is measured by a thermometer placed in a special black globe to estimate solar radiation without the effects of the light itself
Tw = Wet-bulb Temperature (in Celsius)


No offense to you or the inventor of WBGT, but that's incredibly convoluted and makes little intuitive sense. Everybody knows temperature, humidity. I guess sunlight intensity is hard to measure, but it also changes quickly. I have no idea if a Globe Thermometer Temperature of 100 degrees is very hot or just a sunny yet cool autumn day. Wet bulb temp is a little more intuitive but still very niche.

I can imagine a Monty Pythonensque exchange....

"Damn, it's hot".
"How hot is it?"
"This gauge thing says 90".
"Well, make sure your solar radiation estimate thing correctly adjusts for the effects of light itself..... Otherwise carry on, but take it easy"
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