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First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid)
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Hey all

So I did my first 70.3 this past weekend, and the bike did not go as well as hoped. My power was 186 np, 180w average, and pace was 21.5mph. I believe my ftp is around 250-265w (I measured it at 285 a while ago not in aero position, so taking off 20-35w for being in aero and maybe some losses in power since the test).

Despite what I feel should have been a conservative bike, my legs were pretty wrecked for the run and I ran quite slow.

I’m wondering if there is an issue with my fit or if I just wasn’t ready for the 56mile bike.

Here’s a vid of me in a trainer and some stills, any insight is greatly appreciated thanks!






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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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What saddle are you using?

What is the crank arm length?
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
What saddle are you using?

What is the crank arm length?

Saddle is Cobb 55, crank length is 170mm
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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How much do you swim per week ?
What was your target swim split based on training?
Do you do a lot of kick work in swim training or none at all?
How many hours per week do you ride?

Based on your FTP and actual race wattage, your problem was not on the bike. How many calories did you consume on the bike? How much electrolytes? The reason why I ask all this is because people just look at one of the sport legs in isolation but all the events affect one another.
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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I don't see a fit issue. I'd look elsewhere to try to figure out what happened, particularly if your FTP is actually in the 250 - 260 range.

Mike Sparks


I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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Not very uncommon that legs feel wrecked after the bike in (especially your first) 70.3. I do agree that 180 W sounds relatively conservative assuming your FTP really is 250-265 W, but nothing too exceptional, I would say. It is still around 2.5 hours of solid riding - & the swim - before the run ... How many times have you done something close to this hard on training and how did the run feel afterwards..?

And make sure your nutrition was reasonable. At least 60 crams of carbs per hour, at least one bottle of water per hour, and electrolytes/salt as per your need.

What comes to your fit, it doesn't look bad, and I would not expect that the fit would have been the reason for wrecked legs. That said, your pads could be a bit closer, since now it is not your elbows that are on the pads but rather your forearms. Maybe you're a bit stretched otherwise as well. I don't think there would be any harm raising the cockpit maybe a bit as well.
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I swim about 2-3 hrs per week.

Didn’t really have a target swim split, just wanted to stay comfortable. Came out of the water in 34 mins and felt okay, probably could have gone slower.

I do some kick work but pretty minimal

Ride about 8hrs per week

On the bike I took one packet of Maurten 320 (I think that’s 80f carbs) and a bottle of Gatorade from on course nutrition . I actually had two more bottles but lost them at mile 10
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [qpae] [ In reply to ]
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I have done some runs off hard bike workouts but not many. I haven’t done any swims into hard bike, that’s just logistically hard to do
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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186NP for 21.5 watts is not bad for aerodynamics.

186NP for a HIM if your FTP is 250 seems a little on the low side, but is not out of the realm of possibility.

I'd look for other reasons - perhaps swimming took more out of you than you expected?
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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word_salad wrote:
180w average, and pace was 21.5mph

What were you expecting? How tall are you? That speed is not bad for 180W
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:


What were you expecting?


This is a great question in its simplicity.

Extrapolating 70.3 target power e.g. from a 20 min FTP test is a very rough estimate. In reality you get your first meaningful reference point from your first race. And get a good idea where to focus in training for coming races.
Last edited by: qpae: Aug 8, 22 0:24
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [qpae] [ In reply to ]
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qpae wrote:
BigBoyND wrote:


What were you expecting?


This is a great question in its simplicity.

Extrapolating 70.3 target power e.g. from a 20 min FTP test is a very rough estimate. In reality you get your first meaningful reference point from your first race. And get a good idea where to focus in training for coming races.

I guess I was expecting to be able to get closer to 80% ftp (I was under the assumption that 250 was my ftp) with a loose goal of being under 2:30 for for the bike. I'm 6ft

I do feel I have a better idea of what 70.3 power should feel like now, also if anyone has any fun workout ideas to build this
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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The only way to get your FTP in aero is to do a test in aero and if you’ve lost fitness from the last time you tested the test is pretty much useless.
Do an FTP test in aero in your current fitness and see what you come up with.
Also, doing at 70.3 is pretty hard. Biking after a 30 minute swim is also hard. Breaking 2:30 is also pretty hard.
Don’t beat yourself up but don’t assume anything with power.
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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word_salad wrote:

On the bike I took one packet of Maurten 320 (I think that’s 80f carbs) and a bottle of Gatorade from on course nutrition . I actually had two more bottles but lost them at mile 10

This seems pretty light on the nutrition. i try to get 300+ calories an hour and 80-100 grams of carbs. did you start getting fatigued at end of bike?

As others have said, don't beat yourself up after one 70.3. i have very similar #s to you. right now 253 FTP, generally around 255-260 for races. i tend to ride on the conservative side, around 75% of FTP, so generally around 190NP but sometimes even a bit lower, 185W. this usually works out to around 140-150TSS. i can run pretty well off this but will depend on conditions. don't do well in heat. need to slow down more. at that wattage, my avg speed would tend to be just shy of 21mph for hilly courses like STG or OC and around 22mph+ for flatter courses. so your position seems pretty good based on your numbers. i'm not the most aero in the world but generally better than avg based on some testing i've done.

also, LC racing can sometimes take a bit of getting used to running off a 3 hour effort. what kind of training did you do to simulate that effort. not saying you have to go out and do a full practice 70.3. but something that gives you a feel for running after hard swim/bike efforts. it helps on race day to be able to fall back on something you did in training. good luck to you.
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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word_salad wrote:
I swim about 2-3 hrs per week.

Didn’t really have a target swim split, just wanted to stay comfortable. Came out of the water in 34 mins and felt okay, probably could have gone slower.

I do some kick work but pretty minimal

Ride about 8hrs per week

On the bike I took one packet of Maurten 320 (I think that’s 80f carbs) and a bottle of Gatorade from on course nutrition . I actually had two more bottles but lost them at mile 10

If sounds like you had perhaps 400 Cals for the entire bike. That is 4-5 hrs after breakfast after 3 hrs of exercise coming into T2. I think you were around 500 Cals short at T2. This maybe most of the problem. 3 hrs swimming is probably enough for 70.3 as is 8 hrs of riding
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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What was your run time vs. expectation?

--------------------------------------------------------

It seemed like a good idea at the time. . .
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [type-B] [ In reply to ]
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Run time was 86mins, but my half pr is 69, so I was aiming to be at least under 80. I have pretty bad stomach cramps the whole time, so I think the others in this thread who mentioned nutrition as a factor were right
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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Granted that I only did my first 70.3 this spring so huge grains of salt but something I was told and seemed to help me is to eat and drink more than I would expect. I took in significantly more on the bike than you did and my run split was the best of the three (for me). I was pleasantly surprised that taking in a bunch of carbs early on in the bike wasn't a problem for my guy at all by the time I ran. Just food for thought.
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [mattconroy33] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I definitely didn't even think about eating on the bike until 30-45mins in since that's what I usually do on long rides. Did you practice a lot with taking nutrition on harder rides?
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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word_salad wrote:
Yeah I definitely didn't even think about eating on the bike until 30-45mins in since that's what I usually do on long rides. Did you practice a lot with taking nutrition on harder rides?

It's not that hard to figure out how much nutrition you need. Just start with 250 cals per hour beyond the first 90 min which you get for free. So if you are a 5 hrs athlete, you likely need (5 - 1.5 ) x 250 ~ 900 cals. For every extra 30 min out there, roughly add a gel and some gatorade. For every 30 min less subtract a gel and some gatorade. Bigger athletes will likely need more than 250 cals per hour beyond the first 1.5 hrs, smaller athletes may get by with less.

I generally go with a bar + 3 bottles of gatorade (so that gets me around 600 cals), and a gel per half hour of running and whatever gatorade or coke I crave off the course depending on temps.
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Calories or carbs (grams) per hour target is a good way to figure out what and when to eat during a race.

What I'm not sure about here is why to subtract the first 90 minutes..? Sure, your body has stored glycogen for appr 90 minutes from pre race carb loading, if this is what you meant. But since you will anyway be on calorie deficit towards the end of the race, and you are limited by the maximum rate at which your gut can absorb carbs/energy, why not fuel at your maximum rate from the beginning?

My advice would be that learn what your maximum carb intake per hour is and fine tune your fueling strategy accordingly. Most people can handle at least 60 grams per hour, but you may find that you still benefit (w/o gut issues) by raising that towards 100 g/h or even slightly above. Note that in theory, with a mix of glucose and fructose (with ratio of appr. 2:1 - 1:1) you should be able to absorb higher amounts of carbs compared to only glucose. And yes, this takes some practice. But in the end of the day, it really isn't that complicated as it may first sound.
Last edited by: qpae: Aug 9, 22 21:07
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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100%. I actually did quite a bit cause I have one of those iffy stomachs. So I use tailwind as well as maple syrup based products. I actually had two untapped waffles sitting open on top of my bike gear and shoved one in my mouth while I was getting my bike gear on and the second on the run/walk up to the mount line. From there I had my computer yell at me every 5 miles(well beep but you get it) and forced myself to drink every time it went off. This way I was taking it on slowly but consistently. I had practiced this for several months beforehand on almost every ride so that it was just what I was used to. I agree with other posters that you need to figure out exactly what you need, not someone else, but I was surprised to find that I took on more than I had predicted and felt better than I had hoped. Just makes me think that I'm for one going to keep on trying to increase the amount for 70.3's. As a contrast (just for context) I've mostly done oly's and at most took on one gel or the equivalent and was perfectly fine.
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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Good morning.

How was your taper? I have found my taper, if not sufficient, impacts me towards the end of my bike leg and more so on the run.

Gord
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [gordfromborder] [ In reply to ]
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I took the three days prior very easy and the 3 days before that a little easier than normal. This was a mid season race so I didn't want to take a huge taper, but I am still figuring out what works best for my body taper wise. With running I have it pretty well, but tri is still a work in progress.
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Re: First 70.3, poor bike (bike position vid) [word_salad] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like you did well on the taper. Experienced has taught me to avoid trying to “ just get one more training session in”. My running used to be strong, but age ( 70 ) is definitely impacting my run times.

Gord
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