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Home > Forum > Lavender Room > Toddler found alone after IL parade shooting. Both his parents are dead

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Re: Toddler found alone after IL parade shooting. Both his parents are dead [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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J_R
Jul 7, 22 6:33
Post #51 of 61 (288 views)
japarker24 wrote:
Tri-Banter wrote:
---
Close. I wrote, ".....people should not be allowed to own guns UNTIL.....", to which you countered with the Constitution. According to your counter, the Constitution forbids the "until"? We already have some 'until' in our gun ownership. We need a lot more and better 'untils' in our gun ownership, which is the 'deemed that they should' part.


But the bold part is not what the Constitution (Bill of Rights) says. The 2nd amendment allows people to own guns.

What the constitution allows and what it should allow are two separate issues.

While I'm here, things that the 2A does NOT address. Regulation of:
Sales of arms or ammunition
Manufacturing of arms or ammunition
Transfer of possession of arms or ammunition
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Re: Toddler found alone after IL parade shooting. Both his parents are dead [J_R] [ In reply to ]
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japarker24
Jul 7, 22 6:37
Post #52 of 61 (283 views)
J_R wrote:

What the constitution allows and what it should allow are two separate issues.

I don't disagree with you. But presently, the Constitution allows US Citizens to own guns & it is a heck of process to get that changed.
Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Toddler found alone after IL parade shooting. Both his parents are dead [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar
Jul 7, 22 7:13
Post #53 of 61 (272 views)
japarker24 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
So are you suggesting that the Constitution forbids gun permits, safety classes, background checks, mental health screenings, and a bunch of other potential pre-requisites for gun ownership?

I am not opposed to the things listed in your post. But I'm not a lawyer or a judge (& certainly not a Supreme Court Justice) so my opinions are just that.....my opinions.

But you (not you specifically but the general "you") can't say "people (specifically US citizens) are not allowed to own guns until ____________ (insert specifics here)" because the bottom line is the Constitution says people are allowed to own guns.

Why not?

Are kids allowed to buy guns? Based on your logic, 10 year olds MUST be allowed to buy guns because the Constitution says people are allowed to own guns. So are 10 year olds allowed to buy guns or not?
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Re: Toddler found alone after IL parade shooting. Both his parents are dead [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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Barks&Purrs
Jul 7, 22 7:30
Post #54 of 61 (259 views)
japarker24 wrote:
J_R wrote:


What the constitution allows and what it should allow are two separate issues.


I don't disagree with you. But presently, the Constitution allows US Citizens to own guns & it is a heck of process to get that changed.


Let’s not pretend changing the constitution is the only way to achieve common sense gun laws. We had them before under this SAME constitution.

Given what we have seen in recent weeks with the unsettling of settled law, I would expect people to understand how the constitution is wide open to interpretation.

It was the Heller case that said individuals have a right to guns, so perhaps that’s something to unsettle too.

We have a law limiting liability for manufacturers and dealers for negligence. That’s something to get rid of— if everyone else has to be liable for negligence, the gun makers and dealers should too. Those bastards shouldn’t get a free pass for their own fuck-ups, right?
Last edited by: Clara Roberts: Jul 7, 22 7:45
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Re: Toddler found alone after IL parade shooting. Both his parents are dead [J_R] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks
Jul 7, 22 7:31
Post #55 of 61 (258 views)
J_R wrote:
japarker24 wrote:
Tri-Banter wrote:
---
Close. I wrote, ".....people should not be allowed to own guns UNTIL.....", to which you countered with the Constitution. According to your counter, the Constitution forbids the "until"? We already have some 'until' in our gun ownership. We need a lot more and better 'untils' in our gun ownership, which is the 'deemed that they should' part.


But the bold part is not what the Constitution (Bill of Rights) says. The 2nd amendment allows people to own guns.


What the constitution allows and what it should allow are two separate issues.

While I'm here, things that the 2A does NOT address. Regulation of:
Sales of arms or ammunition
Manufacturing of arms or ammunition
Transfer of possession of arms or ammunition

Interestingly, the 2A does not even cover guns. Instead it says "arms".

I am no legal scholar, but my understanding is that 'arms' is a much, much broader word than guns. Websters' says that arms includes most any means (such as a weapon) of offense or defense.

And that is a HUGE category.

Maybe citizens should be able to own ICBMs too?
Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--
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Re: Toddler found alone after IL parade shooting. Both his parents are dead [chriskal] [ In reply to ]
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j p o
Jul 7, 22 7:47
Post #56 of 61 (240 views)
chriskal wrote:
BLeP wrote:
mv2005 wrote:
BLeP wrote:
Bumble Bee wrote:
I blame video games in part.


The problem with that is that in Japan video games are even more popular than they are in the US. And you don't see this happening in Japan.

The issue isn't video games. The issue isn't drugs. The issue isn't mental illness. The issue isn't unlocked doors. The issue isn't that there aren't enough people with guns to stop the bad guys with guns.

The issue is that the US has a culture of guns and gun violence and you refuse to do anything meaningful about it.


What is a culture of gun violence, is it a love of shooting things in real life? I mean I think kids globally enjoy shooting things virtually. The gaming chart above demonstrates that. I’m not sure all these mass murderers had vast experience shooting guns in real life.

As such I would suggest it’s as simple as ease of access commercially and consequently, the proliferation in the general public which compounds the accessibility.


This is gun culture. She would shoot her own Grandchildren to “protect them”.

https://twitter.com/...SaFzb2-VXDOvohDoCK5g


She needs to destroy her grandchildren to save them.

She is very mad that people had the audacity to show video of her quote in full. In typical Trumpkin fashion she can't just admit she misspoke.



Congresswoman Debbie Lesko

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths gun control zealots will go! They turned my speech about protecting Second Amendment rights and my right to protect my grandchildren from violent criminals into a claim I would harm my own grandchildren. Absolutely ridiculous!
I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Toddler found alone after IL parade shooting. Both his parents are dead [Clara Roberts] [ In reply to ]
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dbarron
Jul 7, 22 7:51
Post #57 of 61 (236 views)
Clara Roberts wrote:
We have a law limiting liability for manufacturers and dealers for negligence.

No we don't. What you're thinking of (the PLCAA) says that gun manufacturers can't be sued for how someone else uses their products. Manufacturers are still liable for defects in design and manufacturing, failure to follow existing laws and statues, etc.
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Re: Toddler found alone after IL parade shooting. Both his parents are dead [dbarron] [ In reply to ]
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j p o
Jul 7, 22 8:04
Post #58 of 61 (227 views)
dbarron wrote:
Clara Roberts wrote:
We have a law limiting liability for manufacturers and dealers for negligence.


No we don't. What you're thinking of (the PLCAA) says that gun manufacturers can't be sued for how someone else uses their products. Manufacturers are still liable for defects in design and manufacturing, failure to follow existing laws and statues, etc.


Is it common for an entire industry to be completely shielded from reasonably foreseeable misuse?
I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
Last edited by: j p o: Jul 7, 22 8:04
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Re: Toddler found alone after IL parade shooting. Both his parents are dead [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP
Jul 7, 22 8:33
Post #59 of 61 (216 views)
j p o wrote:
dbarron wrote:
Clara Roberts wrote:
We have a law limiting liability for manufacturers and dealers for negligence.


No we don't. What you're thinking of (the PLCAA) says that gun manufacturers can't be sued for how someone else uses their products. Manufacturers are still liable for defects in design and manufacturing, failure to follow existing laws and statues, etc.


Is it common for an entire industry to be completely shielded from reasonably foreseeable misuse?

Remember when lawn darts were a thing? Then they decided that too many people were getting injured through misuse of lawn darts?
How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Toddler found alone after IL parade shooting. Both his parents are dead [Bumble Bee] [ In reply to ]
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blueapplepaste
Jul 7, 22 9:30
Post #60 of 61 (196 views)
Bumble Bee wrote:
I blame video games in part.

The constant theme of shooting and killing, in my opinion, can desensitize the reality of it.

Unrelated to that thought, a coworker bought an assault rifle. When I asked why, he said just to take to the range.

Our new house is about 3 miles from a gun range. I hear assault rifles all the time. When purchased, we had no idea about the gun range.

If you're target shooting, isn't it more challenging to use a rifle than an assault gun? Might as well have hand grenades readily available.

I blame the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Just as credible as your theory.
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Re: Toddler found alone after IL parade shooting. Both his parents are dead [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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Bretom
Jul 7, 22 9:47
Post #61 of 61 (183 views)
j p o wrote:
dbarron wrote:
Clara Roberts wrote:
We have a law limiting liability for manufacturers and dealers for negligence.


No we don't. What you're thinking of (the PLCAA) says that gun manufacturers can't be sued for how someone else uses their products. Manufacturers are still liable for defects in design and manufacturing, failure to follow existing laws and statues, etc.


Is it common for an entire industry to be completely shielded from reasonably foreseeable misuse?

I feel like you know the answer to that. I'd love to run a simulation of the PLCAA being repealed and its effect on gun advertising over a couple of years.


"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
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