oh boy, youre opening yourself up for a million replies, but yeah we had a debate about the Hed3s and the 404's and this and that and the other too. as you know the Hed3s are very nice, and like Dan pointed out Dupont spent millions developing that wheel. maybe the most research into any wheel? To me, i cant see why you wouldnt want to run a disk rear ----unless your doing races like IMH which dont allow them. I cant notice getting blown around on mine, but im about 83kgs so maybe thats why. And if its weight, my zipp disk is lighter than my Mavic MA2 training wheel.

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Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

I was reading john cobb's website today, and noticed that the hed3 is more aero than the 404's.

Is there a major difference in weight that offsets this difference, b/c from what i can see, the hed3 is a hell of a lot sturdier than the 404? (carbon trispoke vs. small metal spoke?)

Also, does anyone know about the aero data of the tillium carbon yet? b/c if PBO is actually all it claims to be, it looks like a sweet alternative to either of these wheelsets.



-kevin

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

I think the tillium may be OK if you get the steel option for spokes, however, I don't know what type of steel spoke they are using. The PBO will make a comfy wheel but has to kill aero once up to speed. As I always tell one of my riding friends who has spox, "those are some big fat spokes" I wouldn't even consider that wheelset with all the other options out there. If I'm laying down that kind of money for an aero wheel, I'd certainly not let comfort outweight the true function of the wheel.

I've never ridden the 404's, but I've ridden the Alps and H3. The H3 is more susceptable to crosswinds than the Alps...maybe that would be similar to 404's? I don't know for sure. I stayed with the H3's over the Alps, though. They're faster for me.

Interestingly, I have less trouble in crosswinds when I have an H3 on the front with a disc on the rear rather than an H3 front and rear. I think the crosswind hitting the disc rear gives a steering force similar to the force the crosswind imparts to the H3 front, and therefore feels more balanced. It's sort of like someone pushing your hip from the side as you ride down the road; it's no big deal...your bike moves over slightly. Now, have someone push your handlebar as you go down the road...it's a different story...you may still move over, but with a wiggle-waggle, OR, you may overcorrect and move toward the direction of the original push. Anyway, that's how it feels on my bike.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I have a Zipp front a HED disk and a HED deep (not jet deep) for the rear. I've ridden in a few windy races aroun 20-25mph crosswinds with the disk. You end up riding leaning to one side. I'm on a softride with the disk and would ride it in everthing but hurricanes. Did that once and I was a bit nervous. I can't say that I've noticed handling problems with the front/deep combo. I've ridden my friend's trispokes in some races and thought they were fast and rode well. If I was buying 1 front and rear wheel for all conditions/races I would consider a hed3 front but would probably continue with the Zipp front and go either a HED3 or Hed Deep for the rear. Good luck and go with tubulars

I would go with a Lew front (Craig at International bicycle has a deal on Lew wheels) and a Renn disc rear. This is a very fast set up, as the Lews can run in the low 600 gram range (my Sydney is a whole 470 grams!!!) and the Renn is not a porker at 1200 grams (700c tub). Go with tubulars, as you know what my signature says. If you want a low profile rear, get either a Mavic Reflex tub in as few spokes as possible and an Ultegra hub (this will be a cheap set up), or get a pair of Nimble Flys and a Renn disc in addition (use the nimble rear for the windy/hilly races). I don't personally think one wheelset is suitable for all races, myself.

But, if you really did like your Hed 3s, by all means get 'em. They're a fine wheel and they have been around long enough to be proven in lines of aerodynamics, reasonable weight, and durability.

Oh, yeah! LEWs! A shop had some used sets for sale last fall. The shop's team had switched sponsors (or, maybe it was that Lew is no longer produced under that name...I think Reynolds bought them out?), whatever. If I'd had the money, I'd have picked up a set. Even used, they are a great wheel; definitely worth looking into!

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I've got a Nimble Fly front that I had built up around a Chris King hub. Unfortunately, I can't say much more about this wheel than it's crazy light and looks fantastic. (OK, not as light as a Lew, but not as $$ either.) I haven't had the opportunity to race it yet. Hopefully that will change next week.

I bought it as I wanted a good all-condition front tubular race wheel. If I could only have one front wheel for racing, there's no way it would be a Hed 3 (or similar), Alps, 404, or any other large cross section wheel. Those wheels certainly have their place, and I lust after them frequently, but I wouldn't want any of them as my only race option. I think peace of mind is a great way to go fast, small cross section front rims in high winds give me peace of mind.

I don't know if the original poster already has some good racing wheels or is looking to buy his only set. If it's the only set, I'd go with a spoked smallish cross section front, like a fly or 303, and a good solid rear like a disc (choose your brand, I'm a Renn fan), Hed 3 (or similar), or deep section wheel like the Alps or 404. Come to think of it, the 303 front and 404 rear might be one kick ass setup. It might be my recommendation, but I don't know if Zipp will build you a wheel around whatever hub you want. Given their track record with hubs, I'd opt out of their house hubs. That's one of the things I liked about Nimble, no issues building up aroung a CK. Now that I think about it, I guess you can get the Zipp rims through American Classic with one of their hubs or Cane Creek, same deal.

Thanks folks!

I've decided to go with a set of Hed 3 rims combined with a Hed disc for flat, windless courses!

Cheers!