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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [Cavechild] [ In reply to ]
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Cavechild wrote:


Now I'm sure a person about to shoot up a school is going to go to the range. Buy 500 rounds and when they see the sign saying Ammo Purchased Here Cannot Leave. That's going to stop them. Damn. Maybe we should put a similar sign outside of schools. You Can Only Shoot Kids With Ammo Purchased at This School. And get this, Don't actually sell ammo at the school. Damn. We solved it![/font]


People without common sense really shouldn't propose common sense laws.

Are you arguing against all laws then? Why have any laws at all if every single law can be broken?

I recommend you stop arguing ideas and look at facts. Let’s find some relevant facts that we agree are true. After we have the relevant facts, we can use them to form reasonable ideas. In law, the briefs always start with a statement of facts. So start with facts and apply ideas & rules.

Fact: countries with restrictive gun laws have fewer incidents of gun violence. A 2016 review of 130 studies in 10 countries, published in Epidemiologic Reviews, found that new legal restrictions on owning and purchasing guns tended to be followed by a drop in gun violence. That's a strong indicator that restricting access to guns can save lives.

Do you agree with this fact?
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [Cavechild] [ In reply to ]
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Cavechild wrote:
You really have no critical thinking skills do you?


Ummm. The ammo you buy at the range is used at the range, you don’t take it home. Since I'm struggling with the few times I ran out of ammo at the range and was having enough fun to justify paying their huge mark-up. Amazingly the ammo I had left didn't disappear when I left with it. When I went back the following week, it still worked too.


Now I'm sure a person about to shoot up a school is going to go to the range. Buy 500 rounds and when they see the sign saying Ammo Purchased Here Cannot Leave. That's going to stop them. Damn. Maybe we should put a similar sign outside of schools. You Can Only Shoot Kids With Ammo Purchased at This School. And get this, Don't actually sell ammo at the school. Damn. We solved it!


People without common sense really shouldn't propose common sense laws.

A gun range would need to be secured, eliminating the possibility of leaving with ammo. And since you don’t want someone without common sense proposing laws, it’s a good thing you haven’t.

_____
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Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [TheRef65] [ In reply to ]
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A gun range would need to be secured, eliminating the possibility of leaving with ammo.
Ahhh. I see so the guy with a fully loaded AR about to shoot up a school is going to be stopped from leaving with ammo. How exactly? A good guy with a gun? So we can secure a shooting range, but not a school?


Sort of amazing. Your common sense gun laws are pretty much what the GOP is proposing.
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [CallMeMaybe] [ In reply to ]
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Do you agree with this fact?
Yes. And at least publicly the democrats do. There are two problems.
1.) Most of the GOP doesn't.
2.) The Democrats gun control implementation plan is trying to change the GOP's mind. Isn't the definition of insanity trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [gall1972] [ In reply to ]
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I cannot get these thoughts out of my head last night, and today.
My daughter loved her school. She loved her teachers, and her classroom. She was the first in her class to ride her bike to school. The year that she started to bike to school, I followed her the first few times to and then from, without her being aware. I heard her sing as she pedaled. I watched her lock the bike and proceed, skipping into the building. Her school was an extension of her home. She had a Disney Princess book bag, a purple lunch box, and round Poindexter eyeglasses. She introduced her classmates to using chopsticks at lunch, and thought it was cool that she was the only one of her friends that ate Okinawa Sweet Potatoes (they’re purple). I was a school board member at her school. I could walk the halls during the school day. I wore pajamas and read stories to her class on “Pajama Day.” Once or twice I looked at her through the classroom window. I watched and listened to her sing. I saw her laugh. And I saw her completely focused while meticulously writing on her paper - her pencil appearing excessively long in her tiny hand. I have a shoe box filled with her projects - and a well stained Art smock.
Then I see her startled jump and shout as the class door gets kicked open. I hear her friends and teacher scream. I see her confusion. I see and hear shooting and I see her scream and paralyzed in terror as her tiny friends and teacher explode. I see their body parts come off, and I hear her shout “Mommy! Daddy!” I can feel her fear and her abandonment. I feel her last thoughts… “Where is my daddy? Why isn’t he here?” And I can’t tell her “Baby, just run to Jesus!”
I have to have a police officer tell me that I need to identify the pieces of my little girl. I have to hold her mother. I sit in her silent bedroom and smell her, while the void gets deeper. The emptiness of never hearing her joyful laugh. I will be forced to place the most beautiful thing I have ever done in the ground, knowing that she wondered where I was.
I hope these thoughts turn to prayers for parents and legislators, because so far today, I don’t know what else to do with them.
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [Cavechild] [ In reply to ]
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Cavechild wrote:
Do you agree with this fact?
Yes. And at least publicly the democrats do. There are two problems.
1.) Most of the GOP doesn't.
2.) The Democrats gun control implementation plan is trying to change the GOP's mind. Isn't the definition of insanity trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Why don’t the GOP believe this fact?

You seem attuned to the GOP mindset. How about using your special insight to make a huge fucking difference in this world instead of fighting with me? I’m giving you all my best arguments. Take them. Put your shoulder to this huge rock and help me push.
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]
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SDG wrote:


Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows.

I think there's much validity in the above. I can see why kids these days get anxious. The access to information (and misinformation) makes it so much easier to be led down a dark path. I really don't want to get started on the net effect of social media.


SDG wrote:
I do agree the gun laws should be changed to outlaw AR15 ( no reason to have one),
2) waiting period for any guns ( at least a week)
3) universal background checks ( I think we already have this)
, 4) no one under the age of 21 can buy a gun,
5) outlaw all semi-autos ( even pistols)

I still don't think this would prevent a lot of these situations but hopefully a start.

1) and 5) Whole-heartedly agree
2) without an urgent reason for one (like an abusive ex about to be released on parole) that waiting period should be much longer, like 2-3+ months. Plan ahead and demonstrate over time you're not a risk.

Imagine living in a world where active shooter drills were not required, or where schools didn't need to be locked. It's reality in many parts.
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [Cavechild] [ In reply to ]
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Cavechild wrote:
A gun range would need to be secured, eliminating the possibility of leaving with ammo.
Ahhh. I see so the guy with a fully loaded AR about to shoot up a school is going to be stopped from leaving with ammo. How exactly? A good guy with a gun? So we can secure a shooting range, but not a school?


Sort of amazing. Your common sense gun laws are pretty much what the GOP is proposing.

The fact that you cannot see the difference between a gun range and a school is astounding. I hope there are good guys with guns at a gun range, I don’t want them to be required at my grandson’s school. What about that is so hard to understand?

FFS, Francois little boy is having active shooter drills at 3, you don’t see this as a problem?

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [TheRef65] [ In reply to ]
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I can not imagine living somewhere where having active shooter drills for infants is normalised. That's so fucked up I don't even have the words
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [SDG] [ In reply to ]
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SDG wrote:
Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows. tart.



This is an interesting view. But, a question: are today's young people troubled because:

1) of actual fear of things actually getting worse for today's young people?

Or
2) because of fear of things that appear to be getting worse (from fear porn, etc.), but actually in reality things are just dandy?

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Jun 1, 22 6:47
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
SDG wrote:
[quote ga

Why is that? What has changed between then ( guns everywhere) and now ( guns everywhere) that makes psychotic animals want to shoot up schools? Surely it is multi-factorial but we need to study this as much as anything. I suggest kids these days are largely seeing a darker world then we ( 80's kids) grew up in. Although we had the cold war, we also had optimism about growing up, getting a job, getting married, having a family and living the american dream. The American dream was a wife, kids, boat on the weekend and vacation at the beach each summer. Maybe golf each sunday afternoon with the boys.

Kids currently only see fear porn all over the internet and social media about the word coming to an end because of climate change, race relations, discrimination, and all sorts of other things. They also see the juxtoposition of the very rich ( tic toc stars, athletes and celebrities) and see that as the american dream. If they can't achieve that status, then what is it all for. Add to that mountains of debt to go to college for the chance to even get a job paying you enough to live in an average apartment and you can see why some are depressed. Throw in two long years of COVID fear and shutdowns and it could seem hopeless to a person without a strong parental influence at home. Just my thesis but who knows. tart.



This is an interesting view. But, a question: are today's young people troubled because:

1) of actual fear of things actually getting worse for today's young people?

Or
2) because of fear of things that appear to be getting worse (from fear porn, etc.), but actually in reality things are just dandy?

My running theory is that things just look like they are getting worse.
1. Unlike when we use to get our news at 6pm every night, we now are bombarded with it. 24 hours news stations, twitter, facebook, etc.... Our brains cannot take in all that and process it properly. So while it looks like there are a tonne "more" things happening. The fact is, we are just hearing about more incidents. We get not only the global but also a lot of local. We just can't process it all. So personally, I think it is not on the rise but rather we are just hearing about it a lot more. I believe violent crime is actually on the decline in many places.
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [M~] [ In reply to ]
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I would agree with you about crime and violent crime.

But what about environmental, climate, and/or existential crises?

Are those real, or imaginary?

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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
I would agree with you about crime and violent crime.

But what about environmental, climate, and/or existential crises?

Are those real, or imaginary?

Ah, yeah those are real. At least my perception of them is and the weather patterns seem to be changing as well.
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [M~] [ In reply to ]
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M~ wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
I would agree with you about crime and violent crime.

But what about environmental, climate, and/or existential crises?

Are those real, or imaginary?


Ah, yeah those are real. At least my perception of them is and the weather patterns seem to be changing as well.


So that kinda begs the question, is the darker world (as SDG says above) that youth are seeing every day, does this influence the mental health of them as a whole? And does it influence the more vulnerable ones? Could the darker world that we are all living in influence young (and somewhat young) people to kill others in mass shootings?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Jun 1, 22 7:00
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
M~ wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
I would agree with you about crime and violent crime.

But what about environmental, climate, and/or existential crises?

Are those real, or imaginary?


Ah, yeah those are real. At least my perception of them is and the weather patterns seem to be changing as well.


So that kinda begs the question, is the darker world (as SDG says above) that youth are seeing every day, does this influence the mental health of them as a whole? And does it influence the more vulnerable ones? Could the darker world that we are all living in influence young (and somewhat young) people to kill others in mass shootings?

Again, in my opinion 100% yes. It affects everyone but especially the younger ones who are still developing. And some kids are really susceptible more than others to certain kinds of stimulus. Heck it influences "fully formed" adults to act in stupid ways, what hope does a kid have??!
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
M~ wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
I would agree with you about crime and violent crime.

But what about environmental, climate, and/or existential crises?

Are those real, or imaginary?


Ah, yeah those are real. At least my perception of them is and the weather patterns seem to be changing as well.


So that kinda begs the question, is the darker world (as SDG says above) that youth are seeing every day, does this influence the mental health of them as a whole? And does it influence the more vulnerable ones? Could the darker world that we are all living in influence young (and somewhat young) people to kill others in mass shootings?

I can certainly see scenarios, fed by these worlds, that lead to young, isolated people going on a rampage against their peers. They hate the people around them for any number of reasons. However that clarity really dissipates with this recent example as well as Sandy Hook. What possible motive could drive one to target those so young? Whether it was horrible coincidence (the first classrooms they came across) or not I suppose we won't know.

When I was young I don't recall hearing too much about what was going on around the world. It had to be a really significant event. Today you can't escape it. But it's not just news stories. Social media posts result in 100's or thousands of heated back and forths. There is a lot of visible hostility. It takes a pretty stable individual to block out all that noise.
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [Doru] [ In reply to ]
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Doru wrote:
SDG wrote:


No actually it's quite nice. It's a neighborhood school and many are taken by their parents in golf carts, walk on the sidewalks or ride their bikes. They leave their bikes at the front of the school and no one uses a bike lock, just lays their bike down. Skateboards, scooters everywhere and nothing locked up. Teachers are all great, energetic and the class size is small and well funded. Each kid has a ipad. They have recess twice a day and parents often come eat in the cafeteria and bring kids lunch. My kid loves the chick fil a I bring him all the time and time we eat up there.


You can have all of this and have the school locked down during the day with each door outside locked. My kids probably don't even know the doors are locked. Each class has a large window to the outside and they can daydream watching the squirrels all they want.


I live in Canada and the schools in my neighborhood have basketball courts / running tracks / soccer fields that are not fenced. How do you defend these?
Do you have a big fence around sport fields?

During sports activities and recess, a squad of armored and heavily armed teachers first go out on to the courts and fields, scan for threats, then setup a perimeter until the activity is over. If anyone approaches, sniper overwatch will assess if they are a threat or can be let through the perimeter.

Trieatalot

It's a C minus world.
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Re: Shootings - Imagine what it'd be like [Trieatalot] [ In reply to ]
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Trieatalot wrote:
Doru wrote:
SDG wrote:


No actually it's quite nice. It's a neighborhood school and many are taken by their parents in golf carts, walk on the sidewalks or ride their bikes. They leave their bikes at the front of the school and no one uses a bike lock, just lays their bike down. Skateboards, scooters everywhere and nothing locked up. Teachers are all great, energetic and the class size is small and well funded. Each kid has a ipad. They have recess twice a day and parents often come eat in the cafeteria and bring kids lunch. My kid loves the chick fil a I bring him all the time and time we eat up there.


You can have all of this and have the school locked down during the day with each door outside locked. My kids probably don't even know the doors are locked. Each class has a large window to the outside and they can daydream watching the squirrels all they want.


I live in Canada and the schools in my neighborhood have basketball courts / running tracks / soccer fields that are not fenced. How do you defend these?
Do you have a big fence around sport fields?


During sports activities and recess, a squad of armored and heavily armed teachers first go out on to the courts and fields, scan for threats, then setup a perimeter until the activity is over. If anyone approaches, sniper overwatch will assess if they are a threat or can be let through the perimeter.

Man, you're good, that's funny! (its better to laugh than to cry ... )

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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