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9 weeks to first Ironman, what workouts should i focus on?
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9 weeks out from first full distance Ironman event and two days off from a 70.3 which for context I finished in 4:51 but was hoping to do a low 4:40.

I feel like I messed up the final recovery / taper week to be honest so my legs just didn't turn up / felt flat, it was a course PB of just over 10mins though (from previous year) and all of it came from the swim and transitions, I was around 2mins slower on the bike and 30s slower on the run, despite another years worth of training.

My plan leading in is...
  • Week 1 - Recovery from 70.3, lots of easy spins and runs
  • Week 2 to 8

    • Swim - An endurance swim gradually building up to 4km, all open water
    • Bike - Long intervals @ target race power, some long 4+hrs outdoor rides (99% of my bike sessions are indoors)
    • Run - Some off the bike as bricks and some longer easy runs around 2hrs
  • Week 9 - Recovery / taper but with some race pace / power workouts in which I think I missed going in to the recent 70.3

I would also like to do a couple of higher intensity workouts on the bike but is that really going to help me with the Ironman? My worry is if I stop training at powers above race power then race power starts to feel harder. I would also like to continue with my running club speed / interval sessions but again is there any point, would I just be better maybe doing a shorter target race pace run instead (60mins at marathon pace for example)?

Thanks.
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Re: 9 weeks to first Ironman, what workouts should i focus on? [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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Which ironman is it?

Why didn't you achieve the time you wanted in the 70.3? What was the limiters in that performance?

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Last edited by: Brandes: May 17, 22 2:48
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Re: 9 weeks to first Ironman, what workouts should i focus on? [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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How did the weather compare from last year to this year? It's hard to compare triathlons 1:1. Even if conditions were similar, chalk it up to the bigger training block, which will be better for the final stages of your Ironman prep.

In terms of training, what you have outlined looks right to me. Volume + longer sessions @ 70.3/140.6 race pace are your friend. I'm an advocate of doing as much running off the bike as you can & not going into your running workouts fresh. Bike or swim or do both before your weekly running workouts. Do some key weekend sessions in that 3-6 week out range that will simulate race day. Long ride + easy run on Saturday + long run on Sunday. Something where you're getting in at least 112 miles on the bike & 26.2 on the run (in 2 sessions) over the weekend.

In terms of higher intensity stuff, it's ok to work in a handful of sessions like that but most should fall in the threshold to 140.6 range, & that might mean doing your own thing. Club workouts are fun but are usually geared towards the 5k. That isn't going to help your Ironman as much as 1hr at marathon pace will. If you want to mix in some club stuff, maybe do a short tempo (2-4 miles) before the shorter reps. & then take those reps more @ 10k pace or so. But you're 100% right: 3 x 3 miles @ marathon pace is a lot more Ironman specific than 6 x 800 on the track.
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Re: 9 weeks to first Ironman, what workouts should i focus on? [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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You have the general idea of what to do. You have 8 weeks to focus on the demands of the race: going long and steady. Higher intensity workouts can still have their place but don't overwork yourself on those workouts. One bike per week of tempo z3 or threshold/ftp z4 workouts are good and they don't need to be a huge amount of total intervals. Focus on executing the Ironman specific long rides/runs/bricks. I would personally avoid track workouts with the club in the final build to your Ironman. After you finish your IM you won't be wishing you did more 5k pace repeats on the track.

Two weeks out from race day do your longest ride/brick. 7-14 days out keep the workouts the same but slightly reduce volume. 1-7 days out taper.

What are you strengths and weaknesses? Is there a reason you are doing all open water swimming? What are your targets for race power and race pace? How did you come up with the targets?
Last edited by: piratetri: May 17, 22 9:04
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Re: 9 weeks to first Ironman, what workouts should i focus on? [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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Brandes wrote:
Which ironman is it?

Why didn't you achieve the time you wanted in the 70.3? What was the limiters in that performance?

Outlaw Nottingham in the UK, not a particularly hilly course or anything but open roads for the bike. The 70.3 I did was the half version of the ironman, slightly different bike and run routes for the full distance though

I think I tapered wrong in that I basically took it too easy the week into the 70.3, spent most of the week eating as if I was training hard, legs just felt heavy on the day at powers and paces below what I was targeting. In previous events and races i would normally be doing short runs with some race pace efforts and strides etc
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Re: 9 weeks to first Ironman, what workouts should i focus on? [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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dcpinsonn wrote:
How did the weather compare from last year to this year? It's hard to compare triathlons 1:1. Even if conditions were similar, chalk it up to the bigger training block, which will be better for the final stages of your Ironman prep.

In terms of training, what you have outlined looks right to me. Volume + longer sessions @ 70.3/140.6 race pace are your friend. I'm an advocate of doing as much running off the bike as you can & not going into your running workouts fresh. Bike or swim or do both before your weekly running workouts. Do some key weekend sessions in that 3-6 week out range that will simulate race day. Long ride + easy run on Saturday + long run on Sunday. Something where you're getting in at least 112 miles on the bike & 26.2 on the run (in 2 sessions) over the weekend.

In terms of higher intensity stuff, it's ok to work in a handful of sessions like that but most should fall in the threshold to 140.6 range, & that might mean doing your own thing. Club workouts are fun but are usually geared towards the 5k. That isn't going to help your Ironman as much as 1hr at marathon pace will. If you want to mix in some club stuff, maybe do a short tempo (2-4 miles) before the shorter reps. & then take those reps more @ 10k pace or so. But you're 100% right: 3 x 3 miles @ marathon pace is a lot more Ironman specific than 6 x 800 on the track.

Pretty similar to be fair, tailwind on the return part of the bike leg both years although maybe a little hotter for this run this year.

I think my concern is that I assumed going in I would just 'stroll' to a sub 90min off the bike (91mins last year) as I have run a few sub 1:23's since last years 70.3 (my pb going into last years was around 1:27), maybe i just underestimated how hard they no matter the pace
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Re: 9 weeks to first Ironman, what workouts should i focus on? [piratetri] [ In reply to ]
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piratetri wrote:
You have the general idea of what to do. You have 8 weeks to focus on the demands of the race: going long and steady. Higher intensity workouts can still have their place but don't overwork yourself on those workouts. One bike per week of tempo z3 or threshold/ftp z4 workouts are good and they don't need to be a huge amount of total intervals. Focus on executing the Ironman specific long rides/runs/bricks. I would personally avoid track workouts with the club in the final build to your Ironman. After you finish your IM you won't be wishing you did more 5k pace repeats on the track.

Two weeks out from race day do your longest ride/brick. 7-14 days out keep the workouts the same but slightly reduce volume. 1-7 days out taper.

What are you strengths and weaknesses? Is there a reason you are doing all open water swimming? What are your targets for race power and race pace? How did you come up with the targets?

Strength is the run, weakness is the swim (although I have improved the last year 49mins to 39mins). Looking over most of my results my swim is usually bottom 10%, bike top 25% (3 races between 2hr 28min - 2hr 32min bike split) and run top 10% (4 races between 1hr 29min - 1hr 32min run split).

Leading in to the 70.3 I was doing 2-3 pool swims a week alternating between technical sessions, short intervals and longer ones but now the lakes are open i figured it might be best to try and hone that pool technique (where I am faster) whilst in my wetsuit, in colder water, with sighting etc, I'm not sure at this point I'm going to be able to do anything down the pool to get faster

my 70.3 target power was 235-240w based on having done two other 70.3's around 230w (FTP of 280w, I weigh 71-73kg) but my race power for this event was actually 210w avg which is what I am aiming for in an Ironman (200 - 210w)
my 70.3 target pace was sub 90mins, even a 1:29:59 would have been good, this is based on me going sub 90mins at one event before but also I ran two marathons towards end of last year in 3:05 and 3:03, 6+ months of more training so I assumed sub 90mins would be pretty comfortable (it wasn't lol), my original goal for an ironman marathon was around 3:30 but I think ill go out at around 4hr pace now

I wanted to go sub 11hrs on my debut but think sub 12hrs might be more realistic now
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Re: 9 weeks to first Ironman, what workouts should i focus on? [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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elecious wrote:

my 70.3 target power was 235-240w based on having done two other 70.3's around 230w (FTP of 280w, I weigh 71-73kg) but my race power for this event was actually 210w avg which is what I am aiming for in an Ironman (200 - 210w)


If you were unable to hit your target power in the 70.3, faded to 210w, then what makes you think you will be able to hold it for double the time and be able to run a marathon? Adjust that thought, I would suggest 180w for your IM based on the recent 70.3. If your other 70.3's at 235-240w were in the past few months then maybe a bit higher. Don't forget you have a marathon to do after it too.

Don't lose sight of the overall training picture. Continue to swim in the pool doing longer repeats of 300-800's in preparation for IM. Make one of those swims per week open water in the wetsuit, build it up to 2.4 miles. Yes you can still get faster by swimming in the pool.

Since your strength is the run I would focus on the bike and swim. You need to be strong on the bike (relative to yourself) in order to tap into the run you are capable of. Same with the swim, the less energy you expend on the swim the more likely you can hold targets on the bike and run. Don't spend your time doing track workouts, spend your time in the saddle.

With multiple runs of 1:30 in 70.3 and open marathons of 3:05 I would target a 3:30 marathon pace, 3:45 if you want to be conservative at the start.

What is your nutrition plan? How many carbs/cals per hour?
Last edited by: piratetri: May 17, 22 11:10
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Re: 9 weeks to first Ironman, what workouts should i focus on? [elecious] [ In reply to ]
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my 70.3 target power was 235-240w based on having done two other 70.3's around 230w (FTP of 280w, I weigh 71-73kg) but my race power for this event was actually 210w avg

I do not quite understand, if you race with power (target-power) you should reach this power don't you? If you reach less power there are two possibilities:
1. You control your riding indeed via power, meaning you constantly sprint trying to reach your target-power
2. You do not really ride via power, but actually you control your ride via feel or heartrate or you do not really control at all, you just ride, and your target-power is just something you hope for in the end.

You probably were in the second possibility, weren't you?
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Re: 9 weeks to first Ironman, what workouts should i focus on? [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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longtrousers wrote:
my 70.3 target power was 235-240w based on having done two other 70.3's around 230w (FTP of 280w, I weigh 71-73kg) but my race power for this event was actually 210w avg

I do not quite understand, if you race with power (target-power) you should reach this power don't you? If you reach less power there are two possibilities:
1. You control your riding indeed via power, meaning you constantly sprint trying to reach your target-power
2. You do not really ride via power, but actually you control your ride via feel or heartrate or you do not really control at all, you just ride, and your target-power is just something you hope for in the end.

You probably were in the second possibility, weren't you?

Yes I believe I was, I have ridden to specific power before in races but I think mentally this time I didn't push myself to hit those targets so looking at my data for the first hour or so and seeing 21.5mph avg at what felt like a comfortable effort level I think I just resigned myself to continue at that effort, probably hoping that I would have an even better run off the bike. I don't remember actually saying to myself during the bike to now hit a target power
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Re: 9 weeks to first Ironman, what workouts should i focus on? [piratetri] [ In reply to ]
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piratetri wrote:
elecious wrote:

my 70.3 target power was 235-240w based on having done two other 70.3's around 230w (FTP of 280w, I weigh 71-73kg) but my race power for this event was actually 210w avg which is what I am aiming for in an Ironman (200 - 210w)


If you were unable to hit your target power in the 70.3, faded to 210w, then what makes you think you will be able to hold it for double the time and be able to run a marathon? Adjust that thought, I would suggest 180w for your IM based on the recent 70.3. If your other 70.3's at 235-240w were in the past few months then maybe a bit higher. Don't forget you have a marathon to do after it too.

Don't lose sight of the overall training picture. Continue to swim in the pool doing longer repeats of 300-800's in preparation for IM. Make one of those swims per week open water in the wetsuit, build it up to 2.4 miles. Yes you can still get faster by swimming in the pool.

Since your strength is the run I would focus on the bike and swim. You need to be strong on the bike (relative to yourself) in order to tap into the run you are capable of. Same with the swim, the less energy you expend on the swim the more likely you can hold targets on the bike and run. Don't spend your time doing track workouts, spend your time in the saddle.

With multiple runs of 1:30 in 70.3 and open marathons of 3:05 I would target a 3:30 marathon pace, 3:45 if you want to be conservative at the start.

What is your nutrition plan? How many carbs/cals per hour?

On your first point about fading, I don't think I actually did fade I just think I didn't try hard enough to get up to power i wanted, my HR was around 10bpm lower than usual for a bike split, i think i just saw my average speed numbers and figured I was happy with that and the effort level and mentally wasn't willing to push on to save time

Nutrition plan is 80g of carbs per hour split between 2 bottles of Lucozade sport with 2 SIS gels and 6 Clif Bloks, I expect for the full distance i will just take 2 x this amount of nutrition

Thanks for information and advice, i will focus on the swim and bike for this block
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