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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Cavechild wrote:
Or his steady decline each year after that Super Bowl, and his final numbers in 2015 & 2016.


right. but the team was crap. gabbert couldn't win with that team either. ask matthew stafford of being on a quality team makes any difference. he spent a dozen years with the lions and magically equals or sets career highs in completion percentage and TD passes his first year with the rams.

Cavechild wrote:
Remember a BAD Bronco's team offered him the backup job...



... at half his prior year's salary.


Cavechild wrote:
and he turned it down.


when you trade your current job in for a new job @ a 50% pay cut, then i'll take you seriously. if kap had toby keith's politics you'd hold a different view of his talent.

but i don't know how the layoff would affect his ability to play today. i don't know if the game has sped up since he played. or whether defenses are enough onto the disruptive style of play during his super bowl season.

while kap is a very different player, different skills, different style than jared goff, as a ram's fan i never understood the ram's embrace of that guy, because he seemed to me only to perform well if he had enough time in the pocket. he was the least improvisational player in the league. he was the anti-mahomes. i fear that kap kind of has that, as regards his passing ability. i don't see him as an improvisational passer. he can't create something out of nothing, but josh allen can, mahomes can, kyler murray can. that's always been my question about kap, and that question would've been answered if his sin had been, say, beating his girlfriend, or 5 DUIs.


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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Cavechild wrote:
Or his steady decline each year after that Super Bowl, and his final numbers in 2015 & 2016.


right. but the team was crap. gabbert couldn't win with that team either. ask matthew stafford of being on a quality team makes any difference. he spent a dozen years with the lions and magically equals or sets career highs in completion percentage and TD passes his first year with the rams.

Cavechild wrote:
Remember a BAD Bronco's team offered him the backup job...



... at half his prior year's salary.


Cavechild wrote:
and he turned it down.


when you trade your current job in for a new job @ a 50% pay cut, then i'll take you seriously. if kap had toby keith's politics you'd hold a different view of his talent.

but i don't know how the layoff would affect his ability to play today. i don't know if the game has sped up since he played. or whether defenses are enough onto the disruptive style of play during his super bowl season.

while kap is a very different player, different skills, different style than jared goff, as a ram's fan i never understood the ram's embrace of that guy, because he seemed to me only to perform well if he had enough time in the pocket. he was the least improvisational player in the league. he was the anti-mahomes. i fear that kap kind of has that, as regards his passing ability. i don't see him as an improvisational passer. he can't create something out of nothing, but josh allen can, mahomes can, kyler murray can. that's always been my question about kap, and that question would've been answered if his sin had been, say, beating his girlfriend, or 5 DUIs.



i already had to teach you how to make a margarita. i don't have time to school you on quarterbacks.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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when you trade your current job in for a new job @ a 50% pay cut, then i'll take you seriously.


That would be impossible as my current job pays $0. But I did trade in my last job for my current job for a 100% pay cut. Note: My last job didn't pay me $11.9 million a year or $5 million a year.


and that question would've been answered if his sin had been, say, beating his girlfriend, or 5 DUIs.
It actually would have been answered if he took the job at Denver. He didn't because he knew that a QB that only wins 1 game, gets cut, and then gets cut from another mediocre team is a 3rd string QB. Kap knew it was over. It's why he turned down a job at 6X the average NFL salary. He knew enough people would fall for the "I've been blackballed for my political views" line and not go hmmmm he turned down a job. Can you name one QB in the league today that is guaranteed a starting job? Maybe Brady, Allen, and Mahomes are being blackballed too????
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [Cavechild] [ In reply to ]
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Cavechild wrote:
when you trade your current job in for a new job @ a 50% pay cut, then i'll take you seriously.

That would be impossible as my current job pays $0. But I did trade in my last job for my current job for a 100% pay cut. Note: My last job didn't pay me $11.9 million a year or $5 million a year.


Cavechild wrote:
good for you. but would the 28 year-old you have made that decision?


Cavechild wrote:
and that question would've been answered if his sin had been, say, beating his girlfriend, or 5 DUIs.
It actually would have been answered if he took the job at Denver. He didn't because he knew that a QB that only wins 1 game, gets cut, and then gets cut from another mediocre team is a 3rd string QB. Kap knew it was over. It's why he turned down a job at 6X the average NFL salary. He knew enough people would fall for the "I've been blackballed for my political views" line and not go hmmmm he turned down a job. Can you name one QB in the league today that is guaranteed a starting job? Maybe Brady, Allen, and Mahomes are being blackballed too????

your theory does not pass the test of reasonableness. he and his team made the pretty reasonable calculation that he could make more than his 49er salary, which is why he opted out of his last (guaranteed) year.

i've lived long enough to see this before. this was tommy smith and john carlos all over again.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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your theory does not pass the test of reasonableness. he and his team made the pretty reasonable calculation that he could make more than his 49er salary, which is why he opted out of his last (guaranteed) year.


Yet my theory is what actually happened. A declining QB, Backup at the start of the season. Then goes 1-10. Why wouldn't he think he could make more than $11.9 million a year?


Well he could have taken the Denver job and proved he was a starter, but he knew how that would have gone. He knew he could make more money playing the victim.


Can you name another NFL QB who got a special individual league Tryout? (Note instead he skipped it and did his own playing catch in a park tryout).


Any other NFL Players? MLB? NHL? Any sport?
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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What you also ignore is that Gabbert earned $2.3 million in 2016 and Kaepernick got paid $13.25 million. Gabbert signed a contract for $775,000 for 2017 and Kaepernick thought he was still starter material.

And it is misguided, or blinded and biased to think he was better than half the QB’s in the NFL.
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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His QB rating was 17th in the league that year, so right around average among starters.

Cave Child will never admit that. The best you can hope for is that in the future he only repeats the idea that he was a 3rd string QB to audiences who don't know enough to refute his claims



And this is why GM's, Coaches, and anyone with a rudimentary understanding of football don't rely on statistics only. They know that though a 300 yard passing game looks good, but when 225 of it came during junk time it's actually a horrible outing. But it does give the QB an average QB rating. I know every team is looking for starters who can only produce during junk time. Oh that's only in fantasy football when your starter is one the bye-week.
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
windywave wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Cavechild wrote:
Or his steady decline each year after that Super Bowl, and his final numbers in 2015 & 2016.


right. but the team was crap. gabbert couldn't win with that team either. ask matthew stafford of being on a quality team makes any difference. he spent a dozen years with the lions and magically equals or sets career highs in completion percentage and TD passes his first year with the rams.

Cavechild wrote:
Remember a BAD Bronco's team offered him the backup job...



... at half his prior year's salary.


Cavechild wrote:
and he turned it down.


when you trade your current job in for a new job @ a 50% pay cut, then i'll take you seriously. if kap had toby keith's politics you'd hold a different view of his talent.

but i don't know how the layoff would affect his ability to play today. i don't know if the game has sped up since he played. or whether defenses are enough onto the disruptive style of play during his super bowl season.

while kap is a very different player, different skills, different style than jared goff, as a ram's fan i never understood the ram's embrace of that guy, because he seemed to me only to perform well if he had enough time in the pocket. he was the least improvisational player in the league. he was the anti-mahomes. i fear that kap kind of has that, as regards his passing ability. i don't see him as an improvisational passer. he can't create something out of nothing, but josh allen can, mahomes can, kyler murray can. that's always been my question about kap, and that question would've been answered if his sin had been, say, beating his girlfriend, or 5 DUIs.



i already had to teach you how to make a margarita. i don't have time to school you on quarterbacks.

3 points
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [Cavechild] [ In reply to ]
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Cavechild wrote:
His QB rating was 17th in the league that year, so right around average among starters.

Cave Child will never admit that. The best you can hope for is that in the future he only repeats the idea that he was a 3rd string QB to audiences who don't know enough to refute his claims



And this is why GM's, Coaches, and anyone with a rudimentary understanding of football don't rely on statistics only. They know that though a 300 yard passing game looks good, but when 225 of it came during junk time it's actually a horrible outing. But it does give the QB an average QB rating. I know every team is looking for starters who can only produce during junk time. Oh that's only in fantasy football when your starter is one the bye-week.


Well at least you didn't call him a 3rd string QB again.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Third string is definitely a reach. But, he was objectively bad in 2016. Passer rating was middle of the pack. QBR was in the bottom 1/3. Was sacked at the highest percentage in the NFL - nearly 10% clip. Net yards per attempt was 29th out of 30th among starters. Yards per game was last. The 49ers as a team were 1-10 when he started that season. IIRC, he was injured at the beginning of the season too. His career yards per game passing is 177.8. 2016 he actually improved that number. Look at the numbers of QBs in 2022. That isn't going to get it done anymore, in the high octane pass happy schemes. I don't care who you are, you aren't going to get a starter job after that. I don't believe people here are arguing that he was entitled to one, just saying that passer rating has some limitations as a measurement. Additionally, if he hadn't opted out of his last year, the 49ers indicated that he would have been released. I don't believe that the 49ers would be on the hook for anything if they had done so, thus there wasn't really a decision for Colin to make.

However, without the kneeling controversy I don't think there is any doubt that he gets picked up for a backup role somewhere. The kneeling brings a whole lot of baggage though, and I don't think there has to be a league wide conspiracy for all of the teams to come to the same conclusion - that a 29 year old backup who has seen two years of regression may not be worth the fans meowing all year. If he had a season like 2013 in 2016, he would be on a team. If he hadn't been made a villain by the provocateurs looking for the latest boogeyman du jour, he would have been on a team. Kind of pathetic that fans will tolerate people accused of sexual assault, domestic violence, DUI, etc. But a guy kneeling during the anthem is the lightning rod.
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [l'arbitrageur] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
However, without the kneeling controversy I don't think there is any doubt that he gets picked up for a backup role somewhere. The kneeling brings a whole lot of baggage though.....


At the end of the day, I think this is the obvious point that Mr. "He was a 3rd strong QB" won't accept.


And FWIW, if I was a coach, I wouldn't have given Kap a chance for the same reasons.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Well at least you didn't call him a 3rd string QB again.


What do you call a QB that starts the season on the bench, then when the starter goes down gets some starts and regular gets benched?
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [BarryP] [ In reply to ]
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Per Adam Schefter via twitter:

“Colin Kaepernick, who last played football in 2016, the same year he started kneeling during the national anthem to protest racial injustice, is scheduled to work out this week for the Las Vegas Raiders, league sources told ESPN.

More on NFL Live now.”

https://twitter.com/...pg_FJmOPO7NJj6cA-hww

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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Apparently it is happening right now.
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [Tri2gohard] [ In reply to ]
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Per Ian Rapoport, "Sounds like it went well and he impressed. The door is open..."

I would assume these workouts are filmed?

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Per Ian Rapoport, "Sounds like it went well and he impressed. The door is open..."

I would assume these workouts are filmed?

I dunno about teams private workouts. There's video in the Twitterverse of him throwing to various guys in the past few months, but I'm not sure what the rule is on official team stuff.
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [Tri2gohard] [ In reply to ]
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“Tuesday on 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe, Jonas Knox, Brady Quinn and LaVar Arrington tell you why they believe Warren Sapp when he says Colin Kaepernick's workout with the Las Vegas Raiders was a 'disaster.'

Jonas Knox: "If his workout was so great, to Warren Sapp's point, why no footage?"

Brady Quinn: "If the Raiders were willing to bring him in and they thought he performed well enough, other teams would ask how he was, and he would get another workout, he would get more looks. There's a lot of word of mouth in the NFL."

LaVar Arrington: "I know Sapp pretty well and one thing Sapp is not, he's not a liar... Sapp wouldn't have said it if that's not the information he got from somebody who was close to it. So it's safe to say that the workout was terrible."

Brady Quinn: "Part of it too is the game has changed. These young dudes coming out now can sling it and that was the weakest part of his game and if he hasn't transformed into that, it's gonna be hard to impress any of these teams anyway."

To no one’s surprise.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
. These young dudes coming out now can sling it.


<checks to see who the top 2021 QBs by QBR were>

Rodgers
Brady
Stafford
Wilson

So the first 4 are old guys.

Next in line are Burrow, Mahomes, Herbert, and Prescott. Though only Herbert and Burrow of that bunch are fully "young dude." The others are kind of mid-career.

I'm not sure who in the NFL is next in line to take on the mantle of the laser-precise pocket passer from Brady and Rodgers.


Edit: Though Rodgers was awfully good out-of-pocket.
Last edited by: trail: Jul 2, 22 17:27
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Re: Kaepernick to LV Raiders [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
sphere wrote:
. These young dudes coming out now can sling it.


<checks to see who the top 2021 QBs by QBR were>

Rodgers
Brady
Stafford
Wilson

So the first 4 are old guys.

Next in line are Burrow, Mahomes, Herbert, and Prescott. Though only Herbert and Burrow of that bunch are fully "young dude." The others are kind of mid-career.

I'm not sure who in the NFL is next in line to take on the mantle of the laser-precise pocket passer from Brady and Rodgers.


Edit: Though Rodgers was awfully good out-of-pocket.

Personally Josh Allen is best upside. Buffalo got snaked in the AFC game (this from a sort of Pats fan)
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