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Re: Is this normal? [spockman] [ In reply to ]
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spockman wrote:
malte wrote:
spockman wrote:
No but places like Holland and Germany have something like 60 percent vaccination rates.


To be precise it's 68.5 % of the total population (79.1 % of adults; 86.1 % of the 60+ age group) for Germany, and 72.6 % of the total population (84.9 % of adults; >90 % of the 60+ age group) for the Netherlands. Although I fail to see the point you're trying to make in the context of this thread?

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In our church everyone is following the rules and almost everyone is vaccinated. Our minister made somebody leave service the other day because they were not wearing a mask. Our minister also volunteers at local vaccination clinic. We are baffled by the anti vaxxers. 1 Peter 2:13, Romans 13:1


Well you have that going for you, which is nice.


The point is there are all sorts of reasons people are not getting vaccinations. In our community of 50K with likely 50 churches as far as I can see there are only a small minority that have significant number who are stridently anti vaxxers.

If your point is that not all churches push an anti-vaxx agenda, I'll certainly agree. I still can't see how vaccination rates in Germany and Holland are good evidence to make that point, though, and there's certainly no denying that _certain_ churches play a very active and vocal role in pushing the anti-vaxx message.
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Re: Is this normal? [Bretom] [ In reply to ]
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Bretom wrote:
I would argue the Federal Government comes pretty close w/r/t the military - they can't quit.

Though it's still in the works, and left to the discretion of each branch of military, my understanding is the services are leaning towards an honorable discharge for those who don't get vaccinated - even though the legal alternatives go as far as a court martial. So that's pretty close to letting them quit.

Though I agree it's somewhere on the spectrum of coercive action. Not what I'd call "force," though.
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Re: Is this normal? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Bretom wrote:
c
I would argue the Federal Government comes pretty close w/r/t the military - they can't quit.

Though it's still in the works, and left to the discretion of each branch of military, my understanding is the services are leaning towards an honorable discharge for those who don't get vaccinated - even though the legal alternatives go as far as a court martial. So that's pretty close to letting them quit.

Though I agree it's somewhere on the spectrum of coercive action. Not what I'd call "force," though.

Probably separated by a General discharge under honorable conditions. There is a distinction to be made there without so much of a negative consequence. Not a clean slate Honorable discharge nor a Bad conduct discharge. Back when homosexuality was a separation qualifier we would process them out with a General under honorable conditions discharge certificate.
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Re: Is this normal? [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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gofigure wrote:

Probably separated by a General discharge under honorable conditions. There is a distinction to be made there without so much of a negative consequence. Not a clean slate Honorable discharge nor a Bad conduct discharge. Back when homosexuality was a separation qualifier we would process them out with a General under honorable conditions discharge certificate.


I couldn't find the other military.com article I was reading yesterday you are correct they say that is likely what will happen - honorable discharge. They aren't letting them get promotions or receive new orders (duty stations) if unvaxxed. But overall their #'s look pretty good.

>In a memo to the force, Army Secretary Christine Wormuth said soldiers would not be dismissed from the service, but >their records would be "flagged," signaling that they are non-promotable.

https://www.military.com/...gainst-covid-19.html
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Re: Is this normal? [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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Question for you:

Prior to 2020, if a random army, navy, usaf, marine corps, uscg enlisted recruit, already in boot camp on shot day, refused all of his shots, what would have happened to him ?

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Re: Is this normal? [CallMeMaybe] [ In reply to ]
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This guy who hosted the AG’s anti-vaxx meeting is JD Hall. He’s a HUGE asshole. In 2020, he wanted to run a snitches-get-stitches program to identify people who complained about businesses that weren’t complying with mandated Covid safety measures. He called it the “Bad Neighbors Project.”

He has a pretty bad history.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/...-doxx-covid-snitches
Last edited by: CallMeMaybe: Dec 1, 21 8:57
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Re: Is this normal? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Question for you:

Prior to 2020, if a random army, navy, usaf, marine corps, uscg enlisted recruit, already in boot camp on shot day, refused all of his shots, what would have happened to him ?

I have found a 22 page pdf that is very informative of the military recruits and vaccinations and the current USMC directive on dealing with vaccinations. The anthrax vaccinations for the first gulf war appears to be the first problematic vaccine. To your question I have no personal knowledge and am finding it hard to come up with documentation of policy that addresses how to separate the recruit who refuses to vaccinate without either medical or religious waiver, My guess is that refusals were handled similarly to physical qualification failures and simply let go without punishment. Back in 1970 I had no idea during my entrance physical exam why I was getting jabbed and for what. One simply lined up with the others with rolled up sleeves.

https://ke.army.mil/...medicine/RM-ch12.pdf

below is current USMC guidance on the subject

https://www.marines.mil/...-marine-corps-activ/
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