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Art Question for Our Military Historians
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RandMart
Nov 29, 21 18:02
Post #1 of 13 (842 views)
Through Inktober, discovered an artist who does really wonderful aircraft art

https://instagram.com/artebelico_illustration

When I was a kid, I made tons of plastic model airplanes - some I'd hang from my ceiling in a simulated dogfight [however ridiculous as there's no way a Mustang would be chasing down a Stuka]

I would doodle airplanes wherever I could

When my daughter was little (REAL little) and would paint her tiny fingernails, she asked me once "Did you learn that in Art School?"
"Nope - model airplanes"

But this guy does these "profile" pieces of German and Italian pilots from WWII; is he celebrating Fascist & Nazis? Or just really good pilots who were good at their job?

I'm asking the pilots & veterans here: do you reconcile an appreciation of the planes/tanks/ships and people you may have gone up against, or those who came before; and do you ever say "that was a wonderful machine" even if it was on the Wrong Side?

Like, would you hang a really good painting of an ME-262? Or a MIG-21?
"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
Last edited by: RandMart: Nov 29, 21 18:06
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Re: Art Question for Our Military Historians [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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softrun
Nov 29, 21 22:06
Post #2 of 13 (798 views)
Art is depicting things as they were or as they are. It is not to celebrate Nazis/fascist, imperial Japan, communist etc. I have built several model planes and tanks with swastika on them.



This is not to promote Nazism, these were real machines. If there is a problem with these, then there should be a problem with Chinese communist symbols too. Or Soviets. I can see however, that some people may have a problem with this symbols. I didn't built any models with Serbian wartime symbols on them but I don't mind if somebody does.
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Re: Art Question for Our Military Historians [softrun] [ In reply to ]
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klehner
Nov 30, 21 4:46
Post #3 of 13 (760 views)
Did you look at all of his art work? What do you think of his romanticizing and memorializing the various German pilots alongside their aircraft?

(excellent model work, by the way)
----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Last edited by: klehner: Nov 30, 21 4:47
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Re: Art Question for Our Military Historians [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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sphere
Nov 30, 21 4:51
Post #4 of 13 (754 views)
Art and history are near the top of my list of interest. I took the chance to visit the Holocaust Museum several years back when they were hosting a propaganda exhibit, with dozens of pieces from the Axis and Allied forces. It was spectacular.

Personally I find the Nazi "brand identity" to be among the most beautiful and striking in modern military political history. I wouldn't think twice about collecting and appreciating it in any form.

That said, I have no personal connection to the war so I may think differently were that the case.
The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Art Question for Our Military Historians [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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Jim_Richalds
Nov 30, 21 8:19
Post #5 of 13 (694 views)
His doodles are great. I wouldn't consider this art but that is another story.

As for glorifying Nazis/Fascists, I think one can separate the good from the bad. I am currently doing a research project (maybe mulling information over is a better way of saying it) that has to do with salvaging the good from late 19th and early 20th century German thought. Some of the most admirable goals and projects were attempted by German nationalists during this time. It is unfortunate (this is not a strong enough word of course) that the powerful ideas were coopted and misused by boorish thugs for their own accumulation of power and because they were not capable of understanding the ideas and what could have been accomplished. The sheer horror of the Holocaust and two world wars makes it difficult to redeem anything, but I think this may be short sighted.

As for military equipment, I have a great deal of respect for the MG42 machine gun.
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Re: Art Question for Our Military Historians [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig
Nov 30, 21 8:25
Post #6 of 13 (689 views)
RandMart wrote:
When I was a kid, I made tons of plastic model airplanes - some I'd hang from my ceiling in a simulated dogfight [however ridiculous as there's no way a Mustang would be chasing down a Stuka]
I don't collect or display "art", be it airplanes or otherwise. (Sort of a philistine in this regard.)

But there was a relatively famous encounter between USAAF P-51's and German Ju-87's in 1944. (The 31st Fighter Group, based in Italy in 1944, had three squadrons equipped with P-51's (307th, 308th, and 309th).) The 31st Group's P-51's shot down 26 Ju-87's, and a P-38 shot down another Ju-87. This could make for an interesting painting.

A big show for the 31st was Operation Frantic III, a shuttle mission to Russia. 47 P-51s left San Servero on July 22nd and while enroute to Piryatin in the Ukraine covered P-38s attacking airfields in Romania. Flying out of Piryatin on the 25th the 31st attacked airfields in Poland, with the 307th having a field day destroying 21 Ju 87s.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/31st/31st.html
"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Art Question for Our Military Historians [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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Clutch Cargo
Nov 30, 21 9:00
Post #7 of 13 (670 views)
It’s just history and machines men operated during war.It’s harmless in building or drawing war machines planes , ships , tanks etc.
I used to collect war propaganda posters and post cards from ww2.
I have built a model of the Bismarck, Musashi and Missouri.

Say what you will about the Nazis they had really nice designed uniforms.

Not my model 700+ hours lights etc…




Last edited by: Clutch Cargo: Nov 30, 21 9:16
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spudone
Nov 30, 21 9:18
Post #8 of 13 (652 views)
Re: Art Question for Our Military Historians [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart
Nov 30, 21 9:27
Post #9 of 13 (642 views)
My uncle did some aircraft & tank paintings for plastic model box covers, so my brother & cousin have some of those

That's probably a little different, though
"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Art Question for Our Military Historians [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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rich_m
Nov 30, 21 9:58
Post #10 of 13 (623 views)
i think the movie poster glamour headshots of the pilots are at least celebrating those particular Nazis.

Planes and other hardware can have a context that makes them less disturbing......but can't think of any context where i think it is ok to prepare and display the portraits.
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Re: Art Question for Our Military Historians [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy
Nov 30, 21 10:11
Post #11 of 13 (614 views)
To get to your point, I don’t think most military veterans probably would hang art, or have models of the enemy/adversary planes, tanks, etc that they fought against in their homes as just something nice to look at or appreciate. The exception might be a person who builds miniatures of historic battles or something like that.

Similarly, I doubt that a guy who played for the Bears for a full career in the NFL would keep a Packers helmet in his house just because it looks cool. If you’re an exterminator, you probably don’t have a lot of high definition art photography of bugs and rodents in your house.

Just my perception based on my service and the people I’ve known in the service.

It’s not so much that they would be offended as if it was glorifying racism or whatever, but more because you spent a career fighting against that thing, you don’t really need/want to be reminded of it all the time in your home.
Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Art Question for Our Military Historians [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart
Nov 30, 21 10:32
Post #12 of 13 (601 views)
slowguy wrote:
f you’re an exterminator, you probably don’t have a lot of high definition art photography of bugs and rodents in your house.

I dunno about that one: I'm sure there's an exterminator someplace who does just that, because bugs can look pretty cool, like aliens sometimes. I can see an Orkin Man someplace saying "See this? This is a Polynesian Purple Mantis; I found a nest of them in a kid's treehouse on Kauai. Isn't it beautiful?"
"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Art Question for Our Military Historians [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp
Nov 30, 21 10:41
Post #13 of 13 (589 views)
I’m neither, but have watched an episode or two of Pawn Stars. Always struck me that Rick, a proud military historian and Uber-capitalist, would buy anything he thought he could make a buck on. Except something with a Nazi symbol on it.
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