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Re: Jets coach Greg Knapp hit by car on bike. [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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Mark Lemmon wrote:
I think using collision instead of accident is a more accurate description. I don't think every collision between a motorist and a cyclist is the motorist's fault.

I think in everyday use what the vast majority of people mean by accident is that the outcome wasn’t intended not necessarily that no one is at fault or blame for it.
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Re: Jets coach Greg Knapp hit by car on bike. [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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PBT_2009 wrote:

on a separate but related note, i have some new found optimism for changes in this area. as someone who works in the environmental field and has a degree in marine science, i have always been upset and opposed to how the media covers when sharks bite people, by calling them shark "attacks", and just having a fear-mongering approach. however, i've seen a slew of recent articles which show concrete movement toward not calling them attacks, and rather using the terms "bite" or "encounter" or "incident", and being considerate that sharks are not at really at fault in these instances. this is a much more accurate portrayal, and isn't demonizing to sharks. have you ever seen a shark "attack" a person the way they do seals? do the sharks eat the people? no. never. the sharks don't "attack" people in the literal sense of the word, yet it's been framed that way for decades now, and that affects the public's view of these beautiful, important creatures. so this new change is a step in the right direction for something that i personally thought would never change. here's a link to one article. https://www.npr.org/...-they-will-only-bite.

This is a horrible incident and I recognise some of the language being used in such reporting can be damaging.

It is also sad to hear about the state of cycling in some parts of the USA. Many people here have stated they aren't willing to take the risk of cycling on the road, which is a terrible state of affairs and alien to many people from Europe.

Atleast in these tragic circumstances I got a laugh from the shark post. If a shark bites your arm off you've been attacked. If it does so out of confusion or intention to eat you that is irrelevant. This has no bearing whatsoever on the fundamental principle the natural world should be protected.
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Re: Jets coach Greg Knapp hit by car on bike. [ADabs] [ In reply to ]
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ADabs wrote:
Gaimon is right. I like his example. something like: It's not a latte accident of a car runs into a starbucks.

Although I appreciate Phil using his platform for this, he used a red-herring from Vice to attempt to buttress his argument. An F-250 may be as wide as a Sherman tank, but it is not the same. If a car got run over by a Sherman tank (33 Tons), the likelihood of survival is a zero. Let alone a cyclist. At least if you get hit by a truck there is some chance of survival (I survived being hit by an SUV). Yes, an F-250 today is 5 tons instead of 2.5 tons in 1990. But that's still nothing close to a Sherman tank.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Jets coach Greg Knapp hit by car on bike. [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
[

I read the story on CNN and it doesn't assign blame to the driver, if anything it makes it sound like Knapp caused the accident?

"Knapp collided with a single motorist on Saturday in California, according to the San Ramon Police Department. After a preliminary investigation, authorities said they do not suspect drugs and/or alcohol were a factor in the incident. Police said the driver of the vehicle cooperated with the investigation."

I hear the perspectives on 'crash' vs 'accident'. BUT, the CNN piece...well, read it again...'Knapp collided with a single motorist...' THAT is the kind of language that seems totally inappropriate in this case. Is it true? Seems so, but the choice of wording also seems to place the blame on Knapp. What about 'a single motorist collided with a cyclist...' That, to me, implies the motorist as the initiator of the collision. And, as far as we know, that's what happened.

I actually think that this distinction is super important. Casual CNN viewers/listeners will interpret the original words as 'stupid cyclist not paying attention got himself run over by a law-abiding, attentive motorist'. Accumulate this type of reporting over many incidents and motorists think that 'heck, it's all those cyclists causing the problems - let's ban 'em from the roads or at least honk the horn behind them to tell them that they are unsafe here'. This accumulation of misinformation anesthetizes drivers to their obligations in keeping all users of the road safe.
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Re: Jets coach Greg Knapp hit by car on bike. [giorgitd] [ In reply to ]
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The language in the CNN article reads as if Knapp was at fault, which is incorrect, since the driver swerved and collided with him.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Jets coach Greg Knapp hit by car on bike. [giorgitd] [ In reply to ]
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giorgitd wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
[

I read the story on CNN and it doesn't assign blame to the driver, if anything it makes it sound like Knapp caused the accident?

"Knapp collided with a single motorist on Saturday in California, according to the San Ramon Police Department. After a preliminary investigation, authorities said they do not suspect drugs and/or alcohol were a factor in the incident. Police said the driver of the vehicle cooperated with the investigation."


I hear the perspectives on 'crash' vs 'accident'. BUT, the CNN piece...well, read it again...'Knapp collided with a single motorist...' THAT is the kind of language that seems totally inappropriate in this case. Is it true? Seems so, but the choice of wording also seems to place the blame on Knapp. What about 'a single motorist collided with a cyclist...' That, to me, implies the motorist as the initiator of the collision. And, as far as we know, that's what happened.

I actually think that this distinction is super important. Casual CNN viewers/listeners will interpret the original words as 'stupid cyclist not paying attention got himself run over by a law-abiding, attentive motorist'. Accumulate this type of reporting over many incidents and motorists think that 'heck, it's all those cyclists causing the problems - let's ban 'em from the roads or at least honk the horn behind them to tell them that they are unsafe here'. This accumulation of misinformation anesthetizes drivers to their obligations in keeping all users of the road safe.


Agree that most in the United States, including law enforcement, have a bias, conscious or unconscious, favoring motorists over cyclists. Motorists will almost always get the benefit of the doubt.

"A bicycle ridden by Knapp and a motor vehicle with a single occupant collided on Saturday" would have been more neutral if the reporter didn't have more details about the collision.
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Jul 24, 21 13:27
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