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The ACLU loses again
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In this case we are required to decide the constitutionality of Tennessee’s statute making available the purchase of automobile license plates with a ‘Choose Life’ inscription, but not making available the purchase of license plates with a ‘pro-choice’ or pro-abortion rights message.

How do you think the court ruled on that issue, Patricia Ireland?

That’s right, the court upheld that Tennessee “Choose Life” license plates law:

Government can certainly speak out on public issues supported by a broad consensus, even though individuals have a First Amendment right not to express agreement. For instance, government can distribute pins that say ‘Register and Vote,’ issue postage stamps during World War II that say ‘Win the War,’ and sell license plates that say ‘Spay or Neuter Your Pets.’ Citizens clearly have the . . . right to oppose such widely-accepted views, but that right cannot conceivably require the government to distribute ‘Don’t Vote’ pins, to issue postage stamps in 1942 that say ‘Stop the War,’ or to sell license plates that say ‘Spaying or Neutering Your Pet is Cruel.’

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[Invalidating] the Act in this case would effectively invalidate not only all those government specialty license plate provisions that involve a message that anyone might disagree with, but also effectively invalidate all manner of other long-accepted practices in the form of government-crafted messages disseminated by private volunteers. We are not provided with a sound legal basis for making that leap.
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Re: The ACLU loses again [Startmeup] [ In reply to ]
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Do you believe that the statute is a good idea or just that it's not such a bad idea as to be unconstitutional?
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Re: The ACLU loses again [ike] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with the court's findings. I've no problem with allowing both kinds of license plates.
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Re: The ACLU loses again [Startmeup] [ In reply to ]
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So, if Massachusetts only offered pro-choice plates (or only offered anti-war plates), that would be ok with you?
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Re: The ACLU loses again [ike] [ In reply to ]
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Note that the plates being offered are vaniety plates. No one is required to buy them.

That doesn't answer your very good question about whether having plates in this vein is a good idea or not. On balance, I would say no, but it is no big deal one way or the other.
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Re: The ACLU loses again [ajfranke] [ In reply to ]
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You're right -- you have the option of buying the pro-choice plate, you are not required to buy it. I am not sure whether I would go so far as to say the statute was unconstitutional. But, it's a bad idea. They take a highly contentious issue and then they have official state license plates on just one side of that issue. Not only that, but the side chosen by the state (ie, pro-life) is not even the law of Tennessee or the US generally. It's an issue that, to a considerable degree, divides people along political party lines and also along religious lines. Offering plates on just one side of the issue is pretty darn close to taking sides on that issue. That just seems like a bad idea. Why not let license plates serve their intended purpose and leave the politics and religion to bumperstickers?
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Re: The ACLU loses again [ike] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, I remember the good old days when license plates were just license plates. Everyone had the same kind of plate.

In Florida we must have 50 or more plates, with more coming every year. I wish they would do away with all of them.

Like that will ever happen. It is really all about money.
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Re: The ACLU loses again [ajfranke] [ In reply to ]
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True that. When I want to give to a charity, I give it directly to the charity. I don't buy some license plate and then somehow hope the government will do something useful with the money. In CO, they came out with "Respect Life" license plates for the Columbine HS shooting. (Some people think they're anti-abortion plates, but that's another issue). Anyhow, turns out not a penny from those plates (I think they cost $25 extra) has gone to the charity. It just sits in a fund somewhere.
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Re: The ACLU loses again [Startmeup] [ In reply to ]
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With the amount of overly-zealous nuts out there, the last thing I would want to do is advertise my thoughts on one of those issues. Who knows who would throw something at your car just for that.
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Re: The ACLU loses again [ike] [ In reply to ]
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The exact same thing has happened here. We have a very attractive Save the Panther plate. Only problem is that no one has any ideas how to do it, so the money sits in a fund.
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Re: The ACLU loses again [ajfranke] [ In reply to ]
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It's pretty clear they can put whatever they want on the plate. Why don't they let people have whatever they want with the appropriate charge? Save the Oil Rigs, Kill the Whales, Eat the Corn, who cares. If they want to pay for it, let them have it. One standard plate, then one that is fully customizable. If Nike can do custom shoes, a state can do fully custom plates.




f/k/a mclamb6
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Re: The ACLU loses again [ike] [ In reply to ]
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They wouldn't be able to. That's the idea. If they allow one, they must allow another (to be purchased).
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Re: The ACLU loses again [Startmeup] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
They wouldn't be able to. That's the idea. If they allow one, they must allow another (to be purchased).
What are you talking about?

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Re: The ACLU loses again [Startmeup] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
They wouldn't be able to. That's the idea. If they allow one, they must allow another (to be purchased).
Huh? I thought you supported the court decision -- indeed you seemed to take some glee in the ACLU losing. But, the court said just the opposite of what you're saying -- it said that Tennessee can offer a pro-life plate without offering a pro-choice plate.
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Re: The ACLU loses again [ike] [ In reply to ]
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"Government can certainly speak out on public issues supported by a broad consensus, even though individuals have a First Amendment right not to express agreement.

Citizens clearly have the . . . right to oppose such widely-accepted views, but that right cannot conceivably require the government to distribute ...."

I certainly agree with the above (as in the findings in law). It's pretty clear cut. That being said, I do believe that they should offer or allow the other plates. But that's my personal opinion and one which is clearly unsupported in law.
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Re: The ACLU loses again [Startmeup] [ In reply to ]
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So, you think Tennessee should offer both types of plates, but you mock the ACLU for challenging Tennessee's decision to offer only one type of plate.

You quote something about "issues supported by a broad consensus" which has nothing to do with issues such as abortion where there is no consensus on either side.

Finally, you refer to the law as "clear cut" when, in reality, four federal judges looked at this issue and they split 2-2. (The district court judge voted against the Tenn. law, the appeals court upheld it 2-1). Doesn't seem clear cut at all.
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Re: The ACLU loses again [Startmeup] [ In reply to ]
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They wouldn't be able to. That's the idea. If they allow one, they must allow another (to be purchased).

That being said, I do believe that they should offer or allow the other plates. But that's my personal opinion and one which is clearly unsupported in law.




Two pretty different statements.

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Re: The ACLU loses again [ike] [ In reply to ]
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You misunderstand. This law is not about abortion or pro-life. Secondly, when I say it's clear cut, it is. What I mean by that is, the appeals court upheld current law and it doesn't matter the split. The law remains as is unless and until it is overturned or the legislature changes it.

Just because the Supreme Ct., as an example may split 5-4, whatever the result, that still is the law.
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Re: The ACLU loses again [Startmeup] [ In reply to ]
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The law was exactly about abortion or pro-life. The plate said "choose life" and was defended by anti-abortion groups as being an anti-abortion message. Hardly anyone is so naive as to think that "choose life" is not anti-abortion message.

As for the law being clear cut: "Federal appeals courts have been divided over whether such license plate programs are constitutional. Last year the U.S. Supreme Court let stand a lower-court ruling that said similar South Carolina license plates violated the First Amendment." You're also wrong that splits don't matter. The split makes a big difference in whether the entire court of appeals decides to take rehearing en banc and also can affect whether other circuit courts follow it. Dissents are not law, the presence of dissents influences whether judges see the law as settled or still in flux.
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