Thanks for the heads up Nate, I had really been wanting to try the Pro's but couldn't stomach the $200 after spending a lot on shoes already this year

Got them down to $134 shipped direct from Saucony with their additional 10% off. Hell yea!


Now if only I could get my Puma Deviate Nitros to stop rubbing my achilles ...I'd have a nice rotation of plated shoes!

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Clubs/Affiliations: The Rippers / Charles River Wheelers / Cambridge Sports Union

I know it's the WRONG thread, but just my surprising n=1 today - I've been doing 1x/wk intervals with Endorphon speeds, which probably have 100ish miles on them over 10-11 wks, and today I tried the new Vaporfly next 4% for the first time.

I did 2 exact workouts this week and last, 4 x 8'. Same course, almost same conditions, and honestly, I felt less good at the start today than last week, as I did a long run on Sun that beat me down so bad I was virtually walking the last 2 miles. Last week was the Speeds, today was Vaporfly. (Didn't switch shoes, one shoe per day.)

I was totally shocked - the Vaporfly SMASHED my Sauconys Speeds. Literally speeds I've never seen before. On all 4 intervals, I was -10 to -14 sec/mile faster as per Strava's altidude-adjusted pace on a nearly flat course, run in nearly the same conditions. I finished the entire run 3 minutes faster as well, so it wasn't just the intervals that were fast, even the z1-z2 stuff was similarly fast.

I know it doesn't sound like a 'lot', but trust me - I've been doing interval sets all year+, so I know what my paces are for effort nearly down to the second, and I NEVER see the types of paces I was doing today. I could feel it too - not 'wow this is crazy fast!', but 'dang this is likely gonna be a PR'.

I'm convinced - there is NO way this could have been placebo effect for me - on even my HR data, I averaged 151HR on the Speeds and 148 on the Vaporflys. For sure, I absolutely was not 'hyped' by the new Vaporfly and thus cranking extra hard - if anything, I was trying to go as smooth/easy as I could for a hard effort. It definitely felt easier than last week when I used the Saucony.

I'm not ditching my Endorphin speeds - they're still great fun to run and especially train in, but I will be saving my Vaporflys for the unfair race day advantage.

I unfortunately haven't tested the Endorphin Pro, so I can't comment how amazing that shoe is, but Vaporfly is absolutely legit.

Sorry bout the off-topic, just couldn't hold back the comparison

Is the Speed true to size? I wear 10 wide in Hoka Cliftons, but have been running in the Saucony Axon lately and the 10.5 fits well. The Axon is a nice shoe for the price, but would love to add the Speed to my rotation.

For me, yes true to size.

Do you know what the difference between version 1 and 2 is? Is it just colors or have they refined it?

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

+1

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Speeds and Vaporfly are not a very good comparison. VF and Pro would be more appropriate.

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Kiwami Racing Team

Yes and being in a wide in Clifton you may find the Speed to be a touch too narrow and the Pro's to fit well. I have a slightly wider than normal forefoot and found the pros to be less snug than I prefer around the midfoot. The speeds seemed a bit tight to me. \_O_/

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Here's the thing. You can have 20 people testing these VF or Pro's (which would be an apple to apple comparison) and you're going to see a time range of savings ranging from 1-7% with the VF being faster & near the top end of that range for some while the Pro's are faster and near the top end of the range for others and both shoes clogging the meat of the curve.

Glad they worked for you, but like aerodynamics it's 100% N=1 or if you're not going to take the time to test (and 1 track workout in each does not = a true test) play the odds by buying the shoe that feels the best to you when you have it on.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

It's def true I didn't test (or try) the Endorphin Pro. They may indeed be as fast.

But I've been running and doing these painful track workouts long enough that I def know 'magic speed' when I see/feel it. The Endorphin Speeds (not pro) were light, nimble, and yes, feel great, but still no 'magic speed.' No other shoe I've used, even the ultraminimalist ones of virtually no weight, gave a legit speed bump.

The VF has been the only shoe I've tried that did it. And while I've only worn the VF once, I've done this same interval workout countless times in the past 2 years, and I know my expected paces for those efforts really, really well. I literally have never seen the speed I ran with those VF for those intervals, ever.

I much prefer the footbed of the Endorphin line (I have flat feet, and the VF has a big arch that feels super weird to me unless I'm running fast), so if I can try a Pro in-person I'll see how the bounce compares.

The VF for me is so 'bouncy' that you can feel it just walking around. It literally feels like springs under your footbed - you can feel the pop and bounceback even while walking.

Anyone see these go on sale in Canada yet? I've been thinking of trying them for a while, but it looks like all the stores here have the old and new Endorphin's going for the same price still...

So far, I've ordered three pairs of the Speed and one of the Pro. Someone please stop me!!

If you make an order on the Saucony page they send you an additional 10% off code - that's why I caved and also got a pair of the Pros/ Will be interesting to do a comparison between them and my Next%.

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Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

Just picked up a pair of last years pros at my local running store. 149.97 with a 35.00 rewards discount came in just over 122.00 total. I figured too good a deal to pass up.

I used the Honey browser app and got it down to $120.

Just had a chance to try out the Endorphin Speeds that I got on sale (thanks Nate!). 40sec./mile faster than my other trainers (Nike Epic Reacts) at comparable effort level, which is just insane. PR'd my 10k training loop by 90sec. at an effort that was far from all out (8.5/10 PE). My cadence was exactly the same as my usual runs, so all the gains were DPS.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Love this shoe. Had been in Nike exclusively for 10 years till I saw this post and ordered the Endorphin Speed. Bought 1 pair and just got two more. Not quite as fast as the Nike Air Zoom Tempo Next for me but close. Will be my new daily trainers. Fit is perfect and it’s a comfortable shoe. I also run in the Epic Reacts and I wouldn’t say they 40 secs/mi faster for me. Maybe 10 secs/mi. Hopefully they wear well. I have about 60 miles on the first pair. Hard shoe to beat for under a $100 (with my medical discount).

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Let food be thy medicine...

Got a pair of Pro for $70. He ordered a wrong size so I got them from this local guy. I’m not that impressed. They are ok training shoes. I will use my Nikes for the race.

What total mileage are you guys getting on the Endorphin Pro’s before having to trash a pair?

We've had customers with 400 miles and still going. The Saucony rep has a buddy with 600. That's truly remarkable for a shoe of this type.

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Kiwami Racing Team

I got a pair of each the Pro and Speed. What's the recommended mileage for the speed? (I'll use it once a week or so and switch to the Pro on race day).

Also, this is my first carbon plated shoe - how does one 'know' if/when they're done?

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80/20 Endurance Ambassador

To be honest, we were not able to even get many of the Speed as it was so popular and supply was low. I'd be happy to ask the rep if he's heard any actual wear stories. As far as the pro, we've had some customers feel 400 at least and one has 3 pair. Obviously it depends on the size of the individual, frequency of use and road conditions as far as duration. I've only had 2 runs in my Speeds and I was pretty shocked at how much cushioning they had. We have some of the 2nd version of the Speed as well as the Pro, and as stated earlier the first models are on sale, so great buys!

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Kiwami Racing Team

Got over 700 miles on a pair of Speeds. Hardly any sole wear but that durable sole comes at a price. They are a bit slick when running on wet roads. Cushioning is still very good at 700 plus. The Speed has a phenomenally well cushioned, soft ride. It’s an A+ of a shoe, that’s why many reviewers named it the 2020 shoe of the year.

The Pro on the other hand is much harder. It really is too hard, but does have some pop. To me it can’t hold a candle to the Alphafly and Vaporfly. Alphafly also has better lateral stability. Maybe if your young (under 30) and like a firmer shoe it’s okay. I give it a C+ though.

Got over 700 miles on a pair of Speeds. Hardly any sole wear but that durable sole comes at a price. They are a bit slick when running on wet roads. Cushioning is still very good at 700 plus. The Speed has a phenomenally well cushioned, soft ride. It’s an A+ of a shoe, that’s why many reviewers named it the 2020 shoe of the year.

The Pro on the other hand is much harder. It really is too hard, but does have some pop. To me it can’t hold a candle to the Alphafly and Vaporfly. Alphafly also has better lateral stability. Maybe if your young (under 30) and like a firmer shoe it’s okay. I give it a C+ though.[/quote]
I see it just the other way around, the Speed I like it a bit but its too soft for me in the wrong way, at least for.
The Pro on the other hand, that is just simply great. Not too soft, for me, definately not even close being too firm, stable, nice forward motion. Ticks almost all boxes at all speeds I run in.

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands