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A chain give more power?
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The claim of wipperman chains' says that they can give 10 more watts of power? Anyone think so? Anyone tried with a test? Why don't I just clean and lube my existing chain instead?
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Re: A chain give more power? [Matt Berner] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you Matt.... I wondered if this claim may be a bit ambitious. We worked with some of these Wipperman stainless chains on Shimano Dura-Ace 9 Speed lubed with Pro Gold. We thought they were good, but no better than a Dura-Ace chain. and a bit "clunkier" or more mechanical feeling- louder and not as smooth as the Shimano chain. I have no way to testing this claim, It is a big claim- 10 watts? That's huge. If it's true, sign me up for a ton of them. If it's not- shame on those bad men for saying such a thing.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: A chain give more power? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Tom, is this the same company that makes those way cool brake cables that Zabel uses?
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Re: A chain give more power? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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yeah i was thinking the same----but they must have some "proof" that it does improve wattage, i mean they didnt just make that up did they? It might be total heresay or some observation that when they rode a CT they avg'd 10 more watts at the end of the 112 mile ride. I dont know, hopefully they have some scientific proof of that wattage before they go and advertise such claims.

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Re: A chain give more power? [Matt Berner] [ In reply to ]
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The total power fraction lost in drive train friction is supposed to be about 2%. Even if all the friction was in the chain and the chain was frictionless, then you would get back that 2%. If 2% of your output is 10 watts, then your putting out 500 Watts. Not very likely.
Last edited by: ncooksey: Jan 30, 03 13:11
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Re: A chain give more power? [jeremyb] [ In reply to ]
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I believe Dan said that he was the one who wrote the ad, and came up with the number to catch eyes...maybe he will enlighten us.

tommy
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Re: A chain give more power? [Matt Berner] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe they have a catch hidden somewhere that says you gain 10 watts if you have a rusty chain that hasn't been lubed in 3 years. Just a thought. They need a reference point.
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Re: A chain give more power? [Matt Berner] [ In reply to ]
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All my "proof" is anecdotal, but I will say this: after switching to a Wipperman chain my drivetrain definitely felt more powerful. I switched solely b/c of the stainless construction (got sick of replacing rusty DA chains around #3...) and definitely felt a noticeable difference upon riding it. I also had no idea of the "power" claim at the time I bought it, so the mental argument (as in, I convinced myself of it) isn't there. I just spec'd one on my new bike - I believe in it that much.

Plus, cleaning and lubing is so much easier with the Connex link.





"To give less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." - Pre

MattMizenko.com
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Re: A chain give more power? [ncooksey] [ In reply to ]
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I guess if your pumping 500 watts tyhen 10 more probably won't help will it? Ha ha probably not!

Pretty good lie in advertising. Why can't people just tell the truth. People are always trying to scam you. You would sell more product if it was good and could prove it and be honest to people. People would respect you more.
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Re: A chain give more power? [ncooksey] [ In reply to ]
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I believe it was a study out of Johns Hopkins. They reported a bike drivetrain was 98.6% efficient -- without lubrication. They measured the waste heat the drivetrain produced. Interestingly enough, lubricating the chain did not improve it's efficiency, though they expected it would once the system became contaminated with dirt and grit.
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Re: A chain give more power? [Matt Berner] [ In reply to ]
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Does WHippeman Chain actually claim to give you 10 more watts? I haven't seen their advertisement that makes that claim. Or are you referring to the headline ad that asks, "Want 10 extra watts?" Certainly, the ad might suggest Whipperman Chains will give 10 extra watts, but, technically that's not what was stated, even though it could easily be interpreted that way.

I look at it as two separate statements. Do I want 10 extra watts? Yes. Do I think Whipperman Chains do that compared to Shimano? No. Do I think a new clean chain could be 10 watts more efficient than a rusty old chain...sure, but, it certainly doesn't have to be a Whipperman new chain.



Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)
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Re: A chain give more power? [mts] [ In reply to ]
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You're thinking of the Nokon cables. The experience with my mechanic friends is that regular cables are cheaper, easier to route in funny ways, and ultimately a better buy ($50 for a set of brake cables/housing vs. $1.00 per foot housing and $3.00 at the most per cable). I don't even use the Teflon cables as a well-lubed cheap cable (lubed with a good teflon grease) shifts just as well. I also replace cables every season, whether it needs it or not. No point in getting a mechanical in a race from a very cheap part.

But do those Nokon cables look hot!!!!
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Re: A chain give more power? [Tommy Nelson] [ In reply to ]
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it was my ad copy. don't blame wippermann. yeah, it is an ambitious claim, and not backed up by any empirical study.

i believe there is WAAAYYYY more than 2% loss in efficiency in the drivetrain. but it depends on which gear you're in. my faith in the efficacy of the wippermann, or in any very good chain over any very average chain, is in how it responds when in an angled configuration, e.g, 53X17 or 19, something like that.

in that gear configuration, and esp so in tri bikes, where the chainstays are shorter and the degree of angle in the chain much greater, i suspect it takes a fair number of watts just to overcome the friction. what is "a fair number?" i don't know, maybe 20 or 30 watts, depending on the bike, the chain, the maintenance of the chain, etc.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: A chain give more power? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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The 2% number is also on John Cobb's website, in the section "Why become Aero". So it must be right.
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Re: A chain give more power? [ncooksey] [ In reply to ]
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Being in the Northeast, I spend a LOT of time on my CT. When I switched from my Shimano chain to the Wipperman, I noticed no difference in power output. What I don't like about the wipperman is just what Tom points out. It is louder and doesn't seem to shift as smoothly; I guess because it is wider. What I like about it is that it is so easy to take off for cleaning or carting my bike around.

This is just one data point and it is by an old slow guy.
Bill
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Re: A chain give more power? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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No empirical study? Kind of like the QR Redstone was a fast bike because its got a rear faring and a stiff bottom bracket but even though we've got no proof just take our word for it anyway. LOL! Right, and even though I'm Canadian and white, I'm also the king of Thailand. I can't prove it but just take my word for it...LOL
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