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Home > Forum > Triathlon Forum > Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat

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Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat
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TJ56
Apr 24, 21 12:54
Post #1 of 12 (1277 views)
I decided to dedicate this weekend to trying my first tubeless installation. I started last night with removing the tubed installation and installing a TL valve stem and then just trying to get the TL tire to seat on a TL rim with no sealant. First tried just pumping with my floor pump; no luck. I then tried my Schwabe Tire Booster I had bought over a year ago and never used. It was easy to use but I filled that thing with 100psi about 10 times with the same result; no seal. I gave up and went into the office and watched more Youtube videos.

The best one I found is here: Watch me struggle! 5 Tips for Road Tubeless | Schwalbe PRO ONE - YouTube . What I gleaned from it was to try getting the tire to seat first with a tube and then remove the tube and then try the TL installation.

So today I put a tube in the tire and pumped it up and it seated with no problem. I then deflated it and that's when I realized I would have to break the entire seal on one one side in order to get the tube out. I didn't want to do that. One option I thought of was just cutting the tube and pulling it out. That's when I came up with this idea: I broke the seal just enough to get the valve stem out and then installed the TL valve stem and refitted the tire back on the rim. Voila, I was able to pump up the now TL tire with just my floor pump and it held air.

So I have a TL tire with a tube "laying" inside of it. Is this a "valid/safe" TL configuration? I kinda like the idea of carrying a spare tube inside the tire :) I recall reading about some type of insert that could be put in TL in order to maintain control in flats so is this a variant of that idea? It's still holding air after 30 minutes.

Setup - Gravel
Roval C38 wheel
Specialized TL Trigger PRO 700x34
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Re: Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat [TJ56] [ In reply to ]
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dktxracer
Apr 24, 21 13:55
Post #2 of 12 (1239 views)
Leaving a tube in the tire defeats the purpose of going tubeless. The sealant won't disperse properly if you have a puncture, for one thing.

Couple of tips: Leave the tire in the sun for 30 minutes and then mount it. It'll seat easier. Get a charge canister or use an air compressor to seat the tire.
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Re: Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat [TJ56] [ In reply to ]
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OddSlug
Apr 24, 21 14:08
Post #3 of 12 (1220 views)
Even if it didn't get in the way, and I think it will, you don't want to have to do that every time.

It helps just to try and get a picture of what is going on when it fails. If you are blowing a lot of air in quickly and it isn't expanding the tire significantly then there is a gap somewhere. If one or both of the beads are nowhere near the wheel rims then it's going to be hard. You can manually pull the beads about so they are in a better position. Doesn't have to be perfect, just better. You can wet the tire with soapy water, that helps the beads move and it's harder to push water through a gap than air so it creates more force on the tire.

I've never had to do it but some people say put another layer of rim tape on.

I think part of what you are doing by inflating once with a tube is to stretch the beads and tire in general. So it's more flexible next time you try.
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Re: Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat [TJ56] [ In reply to ]
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tri-tele
Apr 24, 21 14:15
Post #4 of 12 (1211 views)
Biggest thing is to have the valve core out when you try and mount the tire.

Other option is to mount the tire with a tube as you did and then unseat one bead and pull the tube and then put the tubeless valve in and reseat the free bead.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
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Re: Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat [tri-tele] [ In reply to ]
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redbicycle
Apr 28, 21 10:22
Post #5 of 12 (1010 views)
The best way I have found to inflate tubeless is to remove the core from the valve and switch to a blow gun instead of a chuck to seat the tire. Something like this: https://www.northerntool.com/..._200661487_200661487
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Re: Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat [redbicycle] [ In reply to ]
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altayloraus
Apr 28, 21 10:26
Post #6 of 12 (996 views)
I get the feeling we haven't quite got a mature technology...

Perhaps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RAB4KsXk44 -
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Re: Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat [TJ56] [ In reply to ]
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ttusomeone
Apr 28, 21 10:47
Post #7 of 12 (987 views)
Another option would be to remove the tube gently so that one side of the tire doesn't unset. It's been my experience that having one side seated greatly increases your chance of getting the tire to seat using a floor pump. I've also had luck with having my wife help hold the tire beads tight against the rim while I pump to get it to seat. I actually just changed out my gravel tires, and rather than wrestling with my floor pump I took them to my LBS and they used their air compressor to seat them. I was already having to go there anyway and all I needed to do was have them seat the tires. I added the sealant myself when I got home.
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Re: Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat [TJ56] [ In reply to ]
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brando
Apr 29, 21 9:34
Post #8 of 12 (872 views)
TJ56 wrote:
I then tried my Schwabe Tire Booster I had bought over a year ago and never used. It was easy to use but I filled that thing with 100psi about 10 times with the same result; no seal.

I have the same booster and have fallen victim to the "it's 100psi, that ought to do it" thinking. It often fails. But, inflate it to 160-180psi (one of these is the max) and then do it and your chances of success are much, much higher. Also, valve core is removed, right?

Another thing that can help (with a slight weight penalty - less than your extra tube though!) is to use gorilla tape, which has a little more height to it than the yellow (Stans etc?) tubeless tape and allows less air to escape when the bead isn't seated.
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Re: Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat [altayloraus] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten
Apr 29, 21 9:51
Post #9 of 12 (857 views)
altayloraus wrote:
I get the feeling we haven't quite got a mature technology...

Perhaps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RAB4KsXk44 -

Just imagine you got a tire pop off the rim/get slashed in the middle of nowhere. Pull out your canister with butane fuel and a lighter.
Incinerate your tire or set a brushfire. Just a question of time.

In any way, you need to carry a traditional set-up with tube/levers and pump/CO2.
Really don't see the point for hard to seat/seal road tires under standard riding conditions. And you can easily slime up your tubes, if you are worried about small punctures and all.

Sometimes I think we are not really making practical progress in bike tech, but sacrifice reliability and ease of use for something fancy and shiny, with 'savings' that are irrelevant for the average user.

Let the anecdotal glorifying commence...
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Re: Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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altayloraus
Apr 29, 21 11:33
Post #10 of 12 (798 views)
Anecdotal glorifying/popcorn...
Quote Reply
Re: Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat [brando] [ In reply to ]
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BobAjobb
Apr 29, 21 16:45
Post #11 of 12 (742 views)
brando wrote:
TJ56 wrote:
I then tried my Schwabe Tire Booster I had bought over a year ago and never used. It was easy to use but I filled that thing with 100psi about 10 times with the same result; no seal.

I have the same booster and have fallen victim to the "it's 100psi, that ought to do it" thinking. It often fails. But, inflate it to 160-180psi (one of these is the max) and then do it and your chances of success are much, much higher. Also, valve core is removed, right?

Another thing that can help (with a slight weight penalty - less than your extra tube though!) is to use gorilla tape, which has a little more height to it than the yellow (Stans etc?) tubeless tape and allows less air to escape when the bead isn't seated.

Excellent point re the pressure.
Going to 150psi vs 100 greatly increases both the total mass of air available to rush out and firce the tyre into position, but also greatly increases the RATE of flow to overwhelm the tyre into being forced into the seat properly. More AND faster !
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Re: Is this just wrong? How I got a tubeless tire to finally seat [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
OddSlug
Apr 29, 21 17:17
Post #12 of 12 (726 views)
windschatten wrote:
altayloraus wrote:
I get the feeling we haven't quite got a mature technology...

Perhaps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RAB4KsXk44 -


Just imagine you got a tire pop off the rim/get slashed in the middle of nowhere. Pull out your canister with butane fuel and a lighter.
Incinerate your tire or set a brushfire. Just a question of time.

In any way, you need to carry a traditional set-up with tube/levers and pump/CO2.
Really don't see the point for hard to seat/seal road tires under standard riding conditions. And you can easily slime up your tubes, if you are worried about small punctures and all.

Sometimes I think we are not really making practical progress in bike tech, but sacrifice reliability and ease of use for something fancy and shiny, with 'savings' that are irrelevant for the average user.

Let the anecdotal glorifying commence...

Bit of a ramble there so I might of missed a train of thought.

Why do you need to carry a traditional setup? I don't and everything is fine.

There is no requirement for tubeless to be hard to seat and seal. It absolutely can be hard but another combination of tire and wheel can be straight forward. The problem is the variance between manufacturers not the technology.

There is no way slime would deal with what my MTB tubeless tires shrug off weekly. I don't think slime in a race setup is really ideal. As others have said road bike tubeless is a different game because of the higher pressure but I think it will get there.

Don't fancy it? Don't do it. I can't think of a choice of technology that offends me in the way this seems to offend you.
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