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Disc with "slower" tube or deep section with "fast" clincher?
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I have a tubular disc wheel with a new Vredestein Freccia glued to it. The reason for the Freccia is that my local bikeshop only had this tube, it's cheap, and I didn't want to glue it myself. I can't really find any information about rolling resistance, but i found out that Vredestein in general isn't really fast.

Now I also have a 88mm wheel. It has a GP5000 with a latex innertube. According bicyclerollingresistance.com it's rolling resistance is 8.4 watts at 120psi. The only Vredestein on that site has a rolling resistance of 18 (!) watts. According Vredestein this is a "fast" tire, it has the same rating as the Freccia. Assuming both are equall, the Continental would almost save me 10 watts. That's a lot.

I am now in doubt what wheel to use in competition. Obviously I can remove the Freccia and glue a Corsa speed. But that would cost me about $100 and some effort. What would you use? Will a disc compensate the 10 watts "gain" from the slower tire? I am only competing on flat area's, so no climbing. Crosswinds are a toss-up.
Last edited by: ic3d: Apr 20, 21 2:14
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Re: Disc with "slower" tube or deep section with "fast" clincher? [ic3d] [ In reply to ]
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aerojacket on the 88mm wheel
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Re: Disc with "slower" tube or deep section with "fast" clincher? [ic3d] [ In reply to ]
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Get the better tire. Go with the Corsa Speed or G+
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Re: Disc with "slower" tube or deep section with "fast" clincher? [ic3d] [ In reply to ]
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The gains with a disc wheel can be a lot greater depending on the wind that day. Pay to have somebody re-glue the tubular with the recommended Corsa Speed. Shoot, offer a pack of beer to a local who knows how to glue if you must.
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Re: Disc with "slower" tube or deep section with "fast" clincher? [ic3d] [ In reply to ]
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ic3d wrote:
I have a tubular disc wheel with a new Vredestein Freccia glued to it. The reason for the Freccia is that my local bikeshop only had this tube, it's cheap, and I didn't want to glue it myself. I can't really find any information about rolling resistance, but i found out that Vredestein in general isn't really fast.

Now I also have a 88mm wheel. It has a GP5000 with a latex innertube. According bicyclerollingresistance.com it's rolling resistance is 8.4 watts at 120psi. The only Vredestein on that site has a rolling resistance of 18 (!) watts. According Vredestein this is a "fast" tire, it has the same rating as the Freccia. Assuming both are equall, the Continental would almost save me 10 watts. That's a lot.

I am now in doubt what wheel to use in competition. Obviously I can remove the Freccia and glue a Corsa speed. But that would cost me about $100 and some effort. What would you use? Will a disc compensate the 10 watts "gain" from the slower tire? I am only competing on flat area's, so no climbing. Crosswinds are a toss-up.

It sounds like your disc wheel is currently redundant. No point having your fastest wheel handicapped by your slowest tyre. I'd swap the tyre or sell the wheel/tyre combo as is. Not much point hanging onto it as is if the rolling resistance is really that bad.

If I was you I'd probably sell the tubular and buy a wheel cover that you can use with either the 88mm wheel or something lighter if you have it.
Last edited by: Ai_1: Apr 20, 21 7:16
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Re: Disc with "slower" tube or deep section with "fast" clincher? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
The gains with a disc wheel can be a lot greater depending on the wind that day. Pay to have somebody re-glue the tubular with the recommended Corsa Speed. Shoot, offer a pack of beer to a local who knows how to glue if you must.


I would suggest learning how to glue the tire yourself.
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Re: Disc with "slower" tube or deep section with "fast" clincher? [ic3d] [ In reply to ]
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Get a new tire and glue it on
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Re: Disc with "slower" tube or deep section with "fast" clincher? [ic3d] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the replies. Conclusion, a disc is faster especially with the right tire. I am going to use this Freccia tube for training now. If the season starts i'll (learn to) glue another tire on it. I am tempted to buy the Corsa G2 since it's so fast (about 7 watts RR) but I am reading a lot of negative reviews about it's lack of puncture protection. So I'd guess I am going for something a little slower with alot better protection. The Michelin Power Competition has a 10 watts RR and seems solid. If anyone has other suggestions, let me know.

Btw, I tried an Aerojacket. Ordered it at wheelbuilder, but I'd guess something went wront because it's far from a tight fit. The jacket wobbles even moves around up and down. So no AJ for me anymore.
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Re: Disc with "slower" tube or deep section with "fast" clincher? [ic3d] [ In reply to ]
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If I had to choose between your two options, I'd go with the deep section rear wheel & GP 5000.

Learning to glue is a good bet if you'll be doing this for a while and plan to keep the tubular disc.

I'd personally sell the tubular disc and get a clincher one if my other wheels are clincher. Easy compatibility is important to my sanity.

The Corsa Speed G+ 2.0 is fast for sure.

Feels more than a watt faster than my GP 5000's but could be that I've never run a Corsa Speed G+ 2.0 that has more than 1000 miles on it because they've never made it half that long. Great race tire because they force you to use new ones by flatting you with a big tear type flat around 500 miles pretty reliably in my experience. lol.

GP5000's new are a great race bet if you care about durability and puncture resistance. My sentiment when racing on Corsa Speed G+ 2.0 tires is: this is the fastest tire and will probably make it through the race, but I'd better keep my eyes peeled for junk in the road. When racing on newer GP 5000's I can ride without concern for puncture.

For my wife who trains seriously and whose performance actually matters, we rotate 3 types of tires as follows:
  1. Important races: Corsa Speed G+ 2.0
  2. Less important races: Newer Continental GP 5000 (less than 1000miles on the tire, usually less than 500)
  3. "Big" training rides/events: Older Conti GP 5000 (ie. race-used a few times)
  4. Training: Conti Gator Hardshell
For me, who trains haphazardly and just likes to have fun:
  1. Races: Less New GP 5000
  2. Not races: Gator Hardshell

Hope that helps!

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Disc with "slower" tube or deep section with "fast" clincher? [ic3d] [ In reply to ]
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ic3d wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Conclusion, a disc is faster especially with the right tire. I am going to use this Freccia tube for training now. If the season starts i'll (learn to) glue another tire on it. I am tempted to buy the Corsa G2 since it's so fast (about 7 watts RR) but I am reading a lot of negative reviews about it's lack of puncture protection. So I'd guess I am going for something a little slower with alot better protection. The Michelin Power Competition has a 10 watts RR and seems solid. If anyone has other suggestions, let me know.

Btw, I tried an Aerojacket. Ordered it at wheelbuilder, but I'd guess something went wront because it's far from a tight fit. The jacket wobbles even moves around up and down. So no AJ for me anymore.

I'm not a huge fan of the covers, but specific to the problem you mention, did you use the screws to secure it? That often results in what you experienced, uneven warping etc of the cover when installed. A better method that allows the cover to sit more naturally and thus not warp, is to just tape it on all around the circumference, don't use any screws. Clean the surfaces and use a good quality 3M electrical tape.
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Re: Disc with "slower" tube or deep section with "fast" clincher? [ic3d] [ In reply to ]
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The disc is faster on flat terrain. Gluing tubulars is tedious but easy. As someone has mentioned, I would get a corsa speed tubular. You will be able to tell the difference.
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Re: Disc with "slower" tube or deep section with "fast" clincher? [ic3d] [ In reply to ]
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@DrAlexHarrison
Thanks for the comprehensive response. Selling the tubular disc is indeed one of the options. Tubes are expensive, I have no experience with glue-ing, you don't have the option to swap training and race tires all the time and a puncture is probably end of life. I bought it because it was on sale. A clincher would disc was almost twice the price. If I run into a bargain, I'll sell this and buy a clincher.
I won't use the Vittoria's, they are too fragile for me. Sidelining will cost me more time than the few seconds I can win on an OD. I will buy a faster tube for racing days and use the 88's for training and sprints.

@SBRcanuck
Yes I did follow the manual, but the "hole" in the center is just too wide. I had them made for an old (but good) rim. The brand / type has been around for years and I think over the years the hubs have changed. I guess they made it for a different version than I have. Probably my own fault.

@Engner66
I will go for a faster tube, but the Vittoria's are too fragile for me. Based on a lot of reviews I read here. I do have orange seal, which is reviewed very well, but adding Orange seal will probably slow the tire down anyway.
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