Excuse me sir, do you have a few moments to discuss our Lord and Savior IM Lake Placid?

Plenty of freedumb nutjobs in Canada. Most of them in Alberta, but they're everywhere.

I'm not sure what you're responding to; it's possible that I wasn't entirely clear.

My response was a rather cheeky way of pointing out that when it comes to resisting the anti-science bent of the unwashed masses, triathlon has certain advantages that the major sports and other large promoters do not.

Triathlon does not depend as heavily on third-party spectators - the revenue comes from the participants and the people that follow in their wake. Those participants are (a) typically more educated; (b) motivated to participate by interest; (c) further motivated by scarcity; and (d) majority from outside the venue area.

Given those factors, a private organization like Ironman can mandate vaccinations and have a reasonable degree of confidence that even with such a mandate in place, the event will be successful because (a) the average triathlete is likely to be vaccinated by affirmative choice anyway; (b) the average triathlete is motivated to race after a 19-month layoff and such motivation is likely to overcome most of the non-health/non-religious objections to being vaccinated; (c) the average triathlete knows that if they don't vaccinate, someone else will and thereby take one of the limited number of entries away from them, thus further motivating them to vaccinate; and (d) there is little cogent argument that the neighbors of a host venue can make against an influx of vaccinated people.

The political will question is a non-factor, I think. The Lake Placid local and NY State community insisted on the vaccination requirement in this case, and kudos to them for doing it. But if IM were to insist on a vaccination requirement as a condition of holding a race, I don't think that the host community would balk. You're not requiring the host community to mandate that its own citizens be vaccinated, so there's no political blowback. There's limited additional danger from an influx of vaccinated people to your area. Besides, on the list of things that IM extorts from its host communities, "a healthier population of racers" should be an easy add.

I don't disagree with you that LP's mandate will not be the norm; I'm saying that triathlon in general and IM in particular are in a very good position to normalize vaccine requirements as a condition of participation, and moreover that they should.

There is enough data now from around the world to minimally show that the vaccines are effective X number of weeks after Y percent of the population has been single shot innoculated. We can go get the number for Y percentage (pick a number like 40, 50, 60, 70....just pick a number) from UAE, Israel, UK, USA. From that date of Y percentage, follow the curve in each country for 4,8,12, 16 weeks and this provides a fairly data driven view of what will shake out.

As for anti vaxxers overlapping with anti maskers my personal 2 cents are that triathlons are private events and if the easiest way for a race director to get a permit from a city is to say only vaccinated customers will be able to participate, then so be it. No one is forcing anyone to do a triathlon and no one is forcing anyone to get vaccinated either. Both are voluntary. If a volutary entry triathlon wants to collect voluntarily innoculated customers, that's everyone's personal voluntary choice.

I am personally against asking for mandatory vaccination of anything government mandated though until these vaccines have passed all trials. After that time, make em mandatory all the government wants. If enough people are against that, they will boot the governments out of office.

In any case numbers look very promising for events in Aug 2021:

https://www.worldometers.info/...irus/country/canada/


That does not mean politics will allow for it, or at least confirm the go ahead for these events early enough for organizers to pull them off!

Dev - it's not happening regardless of the effectiveness of vaccines and a drop in cases. Start with the fact that the U.S.-Canadian border restriction was extended yet again to Jun 21. I've read several articles on the situation published in the past week. Canadian health officials not only want to see a drop in cases, they want Canada to achieve 75% vaccinated status BEFORE they consider opening the border. Your country will likely struggle to reach 75%, and you certainly aren't going to get there by August. The U.S. hit 50% vaccinated yesterday, but the 7 day average vaccination rate is falling fast and shots are going begging. I'm not sure the U.S. will hit 75% this year if ever. Meanwhile, no vaccinated American is going to book flights to Canada, and if the border closure is bumped yet another month to July 21, you can kiss IM Penticton goodbye - with the exception of possibly a Canadian only event.


On a related note: I expect the organizers of World Triathlon Edmonton to announce the cancellation-postponement-change of venue next Friday - their announced deadline for a decision.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/sandramacgregor/2021/05/20/over-75-of-canadians-may-need-to-be-vaccinated-before-canada-us-border-reopens/?sh=367c4fc4dfec

Kovid Kevin and Chris Sky both recently arrested... Sky won't follows bail condition properly and ends up in Remand.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

You are totally correct that in spite of vaccinations going up sufficiently, cases coming down and hospitals freeing up as some point in the future, thresholds for all will be kept high artificially for may political and emotional reasons, not for reasons based on data and what will be possible when we hit certain thresholds as we can see in other countries.

Now setting reopening bars based on vaccination threshold vs hospital capacity is a resetting of the goal posts. So yes, all of this works against many formal things happening.

Having said that there is immense pressure from the aviation and travel sector to open up our border to double vaccinated. Tourism $$$ are eventually desired, families need to reunite with those overseas, businesses need to export and a fall election is looming.

So given all of that, there is hope. Citizen have done their part and outside the two extremes on each side (one side everyone hide in the igloo, the other side, everyone just give it to each other and let it burn thru, don't mask don't vax), there is a large majority who have done their share and won't sit and go back into igloos for an entire summer (well aside that our igloos will melt haha), so there will be pressure to be able to do many things a lot earlier (such as open border with double vax). Once the "hospitals being overwhelmed" challenge is gone, citizens will want some return to normalcy after doing their part to help.

Look at us, having a reasonable exchange of ideas on the internet.

Is this entirely legal?

Replying to thread ....Peachfest on the August long weekend is officially cancelled

https://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/...iw_hb2Z0X17Bdwo7lnsQ

I have no local intel whats going to happen. At best, my guess is, Canadian entrants only because IM have to signal whats happening 6-8 weeks out and i cannot see borders open by then or our governments having their collective heads together in time for a vaccine passport proving 2 vaccines. (Please no one @ me about the subject of vaccine passports.)

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@rhyspencer

Apparently, BC announced a phased reopening plan today. My understanding is that large events cannot occur before Sep 7. Facebook groups are all over the map from predicting a Canada only event on the current date to postponement to Sep 25 to complete cancellation. Ironman RD gave a noncommittal response that they need to work w provincial authorities to see precisely how it applies to that event before they will make a statement.

Yes. The Sept 7 phase 3 date does say “sporting events” but one could suggest thats like a hockey or football or baseball game. July 15 phase 2 says “festivals” would open up. Which one is Ironman? I do not know! The key however is the 75% vaccination rates. The dates are meaningless without hitting that vaccination rate. Dates are arbitrary. Dependency is vaccination rates.

That said. Researching kona trip. By October double vaccine for Canadians and return to canada quarantine will be lifted.

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@rhyspencer

I read earlier this week that the border opening was contingent on the 75% vaccination rate. That may be a tough target to reach. It certainly is in the U.S. Current projections are that we need 4 more months to hit 75%, but that's based on a straightline of the current 7 day vax rate which has been in freefall this month. I doubt the U.S. can hit the target this year, but I hope I'm wrong.