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Do I need a torque wrench?
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While writing a response to a question from an engineer regarding a government standard I helped write, I came across an interesting paper I had not seen before. Often when a thread comes up about torque wrenches I will say you there is so little known about the joint you are working on that at best they give you a (false) sense of security that you have a good joint. Most joints on a bike are slip critical, and as such it is more important to have high friction at the interface. Home mechanics are concerned about crushing their composite bits. So what is one to do? To me, the answer is obvious.

The paper at the link below is quite interesting. It is a study of motorcycle suspension parts, and bolt preload is monitored via a strain gage with the following variables

1) lubricated or unlubricated
2) cast or forged parts
3) spray painted or anodized parts
4) first installation versus the sixth installation

My experience would tell me, for a fixed input torque

1) lubrication causes preload increases
2) never looked into this, but would expect no difference if parts are equally polished after manufacturing
3) painted would tend to lower friction thereby increasing preload
4) repeated installations without cleaning surfaces between could swing either way. For lubricated, you could get migration of the lubricant to other places causing preload to increase. For dry, assuming no contamination of body oils, wear particle build up will cause more friction and reduce the preload

The variables they found to have the greatest effect on preload were (ANOVA ranked)

Surface finish - painted results in higher preload
Lubrication - lubed increases preload
Combination of lube and surface finish
Number of tightening - preload dropped after multiple install cycles
Combination of lube state and installation cycle

Far and away, the 2 biggest factors were lube state and surface finish.

The test data shows that for a constant applied torque, the bolt preload ranged from 2165 N up to 21648 N. Taking out all the painted surface finish data cuts the range to 2165 N to 15153 N, still quite a spread. From there, the data is clearly clumped, with the unlubricated tests providing the lowest 12 preload (and 6th cycle generally the lowest of those) and the lubricated being the 12 highest (and with reinstalls generally occupying the highest preload slots).

Unlubricated - 5075 N mean, 1546 N standard deviation
Lubricated - 10571 N mean, 2221 N standard deviation

In our standard we require 90/95 probability/confidence levels, which for the test data would lead to preload ranges of

Unlubricated 945 to 9205 N
Lubricated 4640 to 16502 N

It is not that I am against torque wrenches, it is that home mechanics often don't have the knowledge nor design detail to know how to correctly torque the joint. That torque callout on the part doesn't come with information regarding if to lube, and if so, where to lube, Aftermarket parts have no idea about the surface finish of the mated parts, is applied torque the total torque or torque above running torque? There is simply too little information provided to the end user, so there is no telling if the joint is safe or unsafe. You are flying blind. The torque wrench isn t the villain, but rather the lack of information.

So for those slip critical interfaces with carbon bits in the joint, what would I do? Friction paste at the shear plane, no lube, and a "dirty" thread surface to increase nut factor thereby reducing clamp force. Torque, test for slip via expected service load application, and increase torque if necessary. But creep up on it, Yes unlubricated comes with higher variability, but the overall benefit of a higher nut factor gives me more assurance.

Anyway, interesting paper on realistic maintenance operations.

https://www.researchgate.net/...minium_bolted_joints (or PDF at https://www.researchgate.net/...um-bolted-joints.pdf)
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Re: Do I need a torque wrench? [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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Way more simple thoughts on why I use one. Most humans doing their own work are capable of some pretty high torque. Experienced mechanics have a natural sense of how much torque is probably right based on life experience of broken parts and loose parts. Carbon parts are delicate, and I do not want to wreck my bike. I use a low-range torque wrench to get it in the ballpark on those parts to have confidence. I do not use a torque wrench for cassettes, crank arms, bottle cages, etc. I use it for seat post clamps, stem clamps, cockpit bolts, etc.

I am not worried about precision when I use my torque wrench. I am worried about being in the general range. And I am a pretty experienced mechanic.
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Re: Do I need a torque wrench? [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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tigermilk wrote:

It is not that I am against torque wrenches, it is that home mechanics often don't have the knowledge nor design detail to know how to correctly torque the joint.


Nirvana fallacy. Because the alternative is "feel." The goal isn't to meet some super precise torque, as would be needed in aerospace or maritime work. It's to get the torque in a reasonable ballpark. And fortunately most (but not necessarily all) bike parts are fairly forgiving as long as in the ballpark.

If I were handing my bike to any home mechanic 100/100 times I'd prefer they use a Park-or-better quality torque wrench than "feel."
Last edited by: trail: Mar 18, 21 8:32
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Re: Do I need a torque wrench? [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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Two other things to throw in.

Painted surfaces. A concern about having paint in a bolted joint interface (not justunder the bolt head or nut head, but in the interface too) is that it can yield once in service- so causing loss of end load in the bolt.

Rough surfaces. Depending on the load and the cycles it sees, you can get fretting at the interface. Again causing some end load loss over time, and also, depending on the component, start to cause fretting corrosion or fretting cracks.


I completely agree that the condition of the threads / surfaces, and particularly whether lubed, with or without loctite, and whether plated or not, has a huge effect that most don't understand.
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Re: Do I need a torque wrench? [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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Not disagreeing with the paper but for cycling that's making a mountain over a molehill.

The torque variations we cyclists deal with don't have to worry about that. We're realistically talking large differences that are easily part-breaking when going 'by feel' vs by torque wrench. Lubricated or not.

I recall vividly installing my first alloy stem and faceplate without a wrench, vs later doing it with a carbon faceplate/stem (with carbon paste) and using a torque wrench. Even though the torque specs were similar, I was utterly horrified with how overtorqued my alloy stem was - if I recall the spec was 7 or so, I was easily at 20+ for the alloy - if it had been carbon it definitely would have broken.

I was also amazed with how little torque was required for the carbon stem/faceplate. Carbon paste was required!
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Re: Do I need a torque wrench? [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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this is my n-1 with a lot of wrenches turned (albeit less than many on this page) in my time.

Personally, I do not use a torque wrench on 99.9% of MY stuff. I have a feel for it that I'm confident in. I used a torque wrench on the Tririg Sigma X (the wedge design called for higher torque than I was comfortable doing "by feel" - much higher than I ever did by hand) and I use a torque wrench for LOOK ergostems (again, the issue seems to be, for me, too little vs. too much torque)

For people just getting into wrenching, I do suggest they pick up...some... kind of torque wrench. Even a crappy one. In general my fear (and from what I've seen) is that someone new to turning wrenches falls on the "too much is better than too little" side of things, and a torque wrench, even a not terribly accurate one, can often save someone from overtightening to the "crack then back off half a turn" tightness. Not always, but often.

For people who bring me their bikes to wrench, I always use a torque wrench. I've found people seem to be more at ease when I do, and so I just reach for it by default. I keep them calibrated and so far, has always worked out well for me.

Rust / Corrosion is what generally worries me when looking at how most people infrequently service their bikes.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Do I need a torque wrench? [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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I have some background building high performance car and motorcycle engines and in those applications the torque spec is really only a surrogate for bolt stretch/elongation, which is the real parameter of interest. Rather than a torque wrench, you use a micrometer to measure the stretch of the bolt as you tighten it. It has been years, but I think what you are doing is stretching the bolt to about 90% of the length before it goes plastic. The bolt is really more of a spring than some magical clamping device that hold two pieces together.

I did spend some time looking at stretch at the specified torque value and what I found was that torquing the fastener to spec resulted in less than the desired stretch.
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Re: Do I need a torque wrench? [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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I think this is a classic case where someone with a lot of knowledge can make a case for why something that works for the vast majority of people isn't necessarily ideal or comprising all factors, but if the vast majority of people implemented it, they'd have a poor outcome. It's certainly true that 'tighter' =/= 'holds better,' like the average person might think; relatively light torque but secure (with a threadlocker, etc) is better than tight and borderline stripped. My suspicion is that for most people (myself included,) torque wrenches are a sanity check for pushing the material too hard. It can be a long, expensive road to learn torque by feel.

Or you know, turn it till it cracks then back a 1/4.


Calvin Jones of Park Tool discussing the lubed/unlubed question, at least (at 7:11 in the video):


JustinDoesTriathlon

Owner, FuelRodz Endurance.
Last edited by: justinhorne: Mar 18, 21 11:33
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Re: Do I need a torque wrench? [justinhorne] [ In reply to ]
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Good video that explains a lot to me. It's obvious these guys know their stuff. I've always been interested in torque mechanisms so it was nice to see.

I look on https://www.horsebetting.com/news/ everyday to check horse betting news. What is your favorite source for horse betting?
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Re: Do I need a torque wrench? [justinhorne] [ In reply to ]
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justinhorne wrote:
Calvin Jones of Park Tool discussing the lubed/unlubed question, at least (at 7:11 in the

A few issues with the video

1) assumption that bigger bolts means greater torque - if all steel fasteners were the same strength, this would be accurate. But you can get junk made of A36 steel or high strength steel A286 bolts as an example.
2) locking compounds "lubricating" the interface - some may, but I have historical test data on a aerospace grade loctite that gives a nut factor higher than dry
3) implies lubrication state is a one size fits all - you will get different nut factors lubricating just the threads versus just under the head versus head and threads
4) for those slip critical interfaces such as stems or seat posts, no talk of why a click wrench is potentially unsafe compared to a dial wrench, or, really not addressing how running torque affects (or doesn't) the load

But his comment about headset cap was very telling, essentially saying "I wish they wouldn't call out a torque range."
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Re: Do I need a torque wrench? [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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 "expected service load application."

I do this all the time too. I use the aerospace shock test Class 3 SRD-9000 in MIL-S-901 to test for bar slip:

"With test apparatus on the floor, grab the hoods and jump up and down a bunch and observe apparatus for slippage. If slippage observed, crank the dang thing further. If initial test passes, go ask your fat neighbor to try the FatGuy9000 test."

Torque wrenches are for n00bs when you can do aerospace-grade service load application.
Last edited by: trail: Mar 18, 21 13:48
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Re: Do I need a torque wrench? [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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It's informative to look at how we got to the current state.

-Back when most bike parts were steel or Al, almost no one used torque wrenches.

-Problem: As carbon parts became more common, there were lots of cases of people damaging parts due to excessive clamping pressure. This was both because the carbon parts could be damaged at much lower bolt torques, and because the carbon interfaces were lower friction (leading people to up the applied bolt torque to try to address the slippage issue).

-Solution: It was then that mfgs started specing torque ranges (and now even printing them on the parts) and using torque wrenches became SOP. It was a way of providing qualitative guidance ("do this and the part should not crack, and should stay put") in a quantitative format (bolt torque range).

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: Do I need a torque wrench? [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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While out industry is way off the back compared to aerospace.. we do also have the advantage in most cases of spec'ing the whole interface for a component.. so when I was at Zipp and we were qualifying a stem, we controlled the first 3 of your variables and then tested for variability based on the 4th.. So when I sold a stem that said 5Nm, I knew it was 3D forged 7005, anodized, the thread spec/tolerance, the bolt material, Ti 6Al/4V, the bolt surface finish (rolled threads vs cut), and we specified a grease that we also pre-applied at the factory.

In this spec, we found that stem faceplate bolts could reliably pass ISO testing between 4 and 8Nm and had onset head failures beginning at 13+Nm.. we also proved that we could pass ISO testing at 5Nm on the 4th, 8th, 12th tightening using only the factory applied grease AND that there was no slippage at the 12th tightening, and so on..

Now, having said all of this, we still warrantied hundreds of these (very expensive) Ti bolts per year and consistently were very confused as to how a bolt that had a spec of 5Nm and could comfortably handle 8-10Nm and had a lowest ever onset failure measurement of 13Nm could fail so frequently? The answer of course is that people truly don't 'feel' as well as they think they do and that even if not perfect, a torque wrench is a good anchor and control for getting close to the optimal solution.

The best piece of data on 'feel' that I've ever seen comes from the PBMA which held a contest for pro bike mechanics at Interbike a few years back (sponsored by PrestaCycle, a competitor of SILCA). The results from the test were reported by the PBMA as follows:

"At interbike 2017 PBMA hosted the Attack Torque Survey sponsored by Prestacycle. A test of a Professional's ability to naturally tighten a bolt to exactly 5.00Nm, 78% of participants stated they have worked as a Professional Mechanic. The Average Score was 6.22 Nm, about 25% in excess of the target specification. 56 people scored below the target, 97 people scored above the target. 34 people scored at least 20% below the target. 70 people scored more than 20% above the target. The lowest result was 1.41Nm - scored by more than one person. Seven participants scored within the 13's. The highest score was 13.96Nm."

So having said all of that.. the problem addressed by this paper is for a case where somebody gives you an algebraic equation with 5 variables and no other info and then argues that a calculator won't help you (and it won't)..what you need is a design of experiments when you have so many variables, and there are some not covered here.. whereas the more accurate state of the industry is that the component maker is hiding the equation entirely, but has some (hopefully enough) DOE that it is telling you that answer is roughly 5..or maybe 6, or depending on the quality of that wrench you found on Amazon, might be 4, or 7.. but following the instructions and suggestions and using the same tools over and over you will quickly get to a point where you find that 5 is actually 6.5 and that is repeatable. I know many pro bike mechanics actually will write the torque for a specific bar/stem under the stem when it is off.. which happens as bars can be undersized, stems oversized, their torque wrench isn't accurate, but it's repeatable, etc.

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