Well higher real FTP, yes of course. I'm happy with the 20min test and the ballpark FTP it's given me on the KK. What I should have clarified is I found I underperformed on the KK when I did the ramp test because of the constant breaks in rythm by having to vary cadence and gear for every step. I think I would have had a better result on a smart ramp test as that issue is taken out of the equation.

Assuming this is on a tt bike, are you riding in erg mode in aero position and trying to hit similar numbers while riding aero outdoors?

---

blog

It's ironic, but I definitely found out the hard way that testing 'well' on a FTP test was good for my ego but tended to be worse for my training! (I guess I tend to overtrain/overreach.)

Nowadays when I do a 20min or 40 minute FTP test, I go super hard but don't do a final anaerobic max finish - the number I get is plenty hard for training if I'm getting up to Z4-5 HR by the end.

That's exactly what you're not supposed to do with an FTP assessment... It skews the data and shows that you could have paced it a bit better.

---

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

I recall hearing from some source that I vaguely remember as reliable/respectable, that you're supposed to NOT do the anaerobic finish like I mentioned, but I can't recall where I heard that from.

You may very well be 100% right that I may be 'mis-testing' my FTP, but the most important thing is that it works for what you are using it for, and for sure, I get better results and am less prone to burnout (on whatever plan I'm using) if I test my FTP in this less aggressive manner. I've learned the hard way that I almost invariably train 'too hard', so I prefer this method, even if it's not 'correct.'

Always keep it same same. Test aero but if I start to fall in a hole I’ll sit up to eek out more power. Either way, dislike button.

I’m not disagreeing? I’m saying that a proper assessment is an even paced effort... the anaerobic effort at the end skews the data.

---

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

@cloy - oh I guess we agree!

I second this. In my experience when using ERG I will default to the cadence that feels "easiest" for me, which I think the science agrees is the cadence I should be pedaling at rather than trying to force a high cadence.

I also find ERG invaluable when doing long rides at IM pace indoors, I just set my target pace and zone out watching Netflix. Doing this without ERG often leads to lower watts than planned.

Nothing odd about disliking ERG mode. I had tried a friends smart trainer before I bought mine and had tried ERG mode. I knew I would probably never use it but still bought a smart trainer. It's certainly not the main reason I bought a smart trainer and it's a good thing too, because having tried it again a few times my initial impression was confirmed - ERG mode is not for me!

Like a lot of others here it seems, my previous trainer was a KK Road Machine. I was very happy with that, but I far prefer my Tacx Neo 2T and have no regrets after changing. The KK couldn't provide enough resistance at low RPM. It didn't allow a little rocking like the Neo. The wheel/pulley interface wasn't immune to slipping during quick accelerations or even more sustained really hard efforts. I liked the feel of pedaling on the KK and I was concerned I'd like the Neo less, but that hasn't been the case. I now prefer it. Probably most noticably, there's no terrain dependent resistance change when using Zwift with a non-smart trainer. Also the KK was reasonably quiet but the Neo is quieter - now the bike drive-train itself is easily the source of most noise if I turn the fans off.

So, if you don't like ERG mode, don't use ERG mode. I don't like the idea almost as much as I don't like it in practice. Your mind is part of the system. I don't need or want to take it out of the equation for controlling my effort. But it seems I can't anyway. Regardless whether I try an easy effort or a hard one, I find it impossible to sit at a good sustainable rhythm if I let ERG interfere. Maybe I could get used to it, but I don't want to. When i'm training I'll train and when I'm watching TV I'll do that. Watching while training feels to me like it's the worst of both worlds!

I get it to feel this way. I just think it's like everything, balance.

Too much erg only in the diet isn't good for your ability to adapt to changing terrain and cadences and power demands. Too much without erg and you might miss out on some workout gains by being able to stay in that key physiological area you need to stay in to adapt.

erg can stink if you don't pick your workout power well. Then most smart platforms have an in workout +/- feature to take a % off or add a %. I push my TP workouts to Zwift then use companion app to adjust as necessary. Some workouts I'm more talented at than others. So some I reduce the % and others I increase the % while leaving the ftp set the same.

Last night I did 2x20 upper level sweetspot using Zwift free ride. Two laps of Innsbruck up the climb. Climb at that w/kg for me is right at 22min. Just right with a little lead in warmup and a little downhill cooldown between sets. Example of when you can choose not to use erg.

This is exactly when I turn off erg mode. Longer threshold or sub-threshold efforts are much easier when you can focus on maintaining the power and playing with gear and cadence.

Erg can be really frustrating at first if you let your cadence drop and the resistance dramatically kicks up, forcing a big effort to recover, etc. It takes some getting used to. I also find it much easier to do short bursts without it on, like a tempo ride with 10 second sprints mixed in or something. The resistance change on smart trainers isn't quite quick enough to make those feel natural.

Why has no one talked about resistance mode in zwift? Is there a considerable difference from loading a workout in zwift and using resistance mode (instead of erg mode) than riding in zwift as a "free ride?"

---

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

My n=1 experience is that Erg mode is awesome. I've been doing structured workouts on a smart trainer for a few years and the first 1-1.5 years was in standard (non-erg) mode. But after switching to using Erg mode, I love it and never use standard resistance unless the workout really needs it (very very short interval surges, like < 15 seconds) in order to hit power targets. I haven't ever had the cadence problem you mention, but I tend to be on the high-end of natural cadence so maybe that is a factor (~95 rpm is my general self-selected cadence).

Also worth noting that I use a Hammer H2. 90% of my structured workouts are on TrainerRoad, but a few are on Zwift.

As has been brought up, I think a lot might depend on the platform you're using with your trainer.

All riding on Zwift or the Tacx apps did for me was make me tired, on & off the bike. Since switching back to The Sufferfest? So choice, and I love my (Tacx Flux Smart) erg trainer.

---

#cureMS

I don't think there is such thing as too little erg mode. You don't need erg mode to stay at a planned intensity. I would also argue that use of erg mode reinforces an obsession with precise numbers and a notion that physiological training intensities have precise limits that are sacrosanct.

That’s kinda where I’m at (caveat, I’ve never used erg mode). But I typically have no issues with holding wattage within a reasonable range of target, and not using erg mode has benefits. For example, yesterday my workout was 4x6 mins at 300watts with 4 mins recovery between intervals. FTP is set at 284. I wasn’t feeling great, all I could manage was about 285 on those intervals, a little higher on the last one. I’m positive that I would have failed the workout on the first interval if I was using erg, but just being able to self select the wattage organically, rather than having to make a conscious decision to hit the “-“ button, meant I was able to complete the workout.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Interesting. I find ERG mode to be much more difficult. On the road, I generally find hitting the same power targets a bit easier.

---

Human Person

ive observed the same. the difference is really pronounced when it starts warming up outside and i ride outside the first time after an entire winter season of indoor riding.

---

80/20 Endurance Ambassador

I don't think the science says much about erg mode cadence.

My point being that my self-selected cadence in erg mode, for whatever reason, is lower than my real-life cadence at the same power. Which raises the question about whether erg mode might optimize for erg mode, rather than real life.

Maybe it doesn't, or isn't a big deal. But I think the issue most have is the discrepancy between real-life cadence and erg mode cadence.

I don't see that being an issue with erg mode. Of all the workouts I do in erg mode, about 15-20% of them have specific cadence targets for the intervals. Some are low cadence (60-70), some are high cadence (100-110). But most of my workouts are at self-selected cadence. All of that is exactly the same when I didn't use erg mode, i.e. using erg mode didn't change that dynamic at all.

Not, may not be an issue. Just pointing out that erg mode may push you to a lower cadence then you'd use at the same power in the real world (or it may not). Still a great workout.