My sleeved Roka is incredible!! Love it.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

I have the Kiwami sleeved swimskin and absolutely love it, and have had very fast and comfortable swims in it. While some roll down the tri suit underneath, I have never done that as it seems a real pain to get it back up and on without wrinkles while wet. My Kiwami sleeved suit is quite comfy to swim fully up under the swimskin. Their suit also comes off quite easily while on the run in T1. HIGHLY recommended!

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Kiwami Racing Team

Have you timed yourself in the pool with and without it??? Does it seem to make you more buoyant like the wettie???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I've never swam in one, but I'm 95% sure that swimskins don't provide buoyancy... They decrease hydrodynamic drag.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Nope, have not done tests, but DD has. I don't need to as repeat use in chlorine will negatively affect the coating. My AG race results for the swim portion substantiates the swimskin being faster so I don't need pool tests.

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Kiwami Racing Team

So how much faster per 100 yd???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Ya, that's kinda what I thought. I have seen many of the Oly 10K swimmers wearing them so presumably they do work pretty well.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

https://accelerate3.com/...rush-my-impressions/

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Kiwami Racing Team

Thanks PG. Looks like at least 5 sec/100 m which is quite significant.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

He didn't account for fatigue?

5 seconds difference is what I've experienced between jammers and buoyancy shorts. I think I did 1.10min/100m in the core pants, 1.15 with jammers. I reckon my Xterra swimskin is 2 seconds faster. And then you need to account for taking it off. Guy reckons 15s. These things are expensive and fragile as fuck, you can't just rip it off like a wetsuit.

So in a 750 sprint I would expect to be 14, 15 seconds quicker which would be cancelled out by taking the swimskin off. Even if it was 5s/100m quicker that's a saving of 35s, take off the 25s for removing it, you have spent $400 to save 10 seconds. And if you're drafting it's a moot point. A complete waste of money IMO.

I had done a pool test in 2017 when I bought a kiwami sleeved swimsuit.
5x(4x100m) without looking at the watch, at what feels like a half ironman pace.
Sets were 1/ speedo, 2/ itu style sleeveless trisuit (virklon, back zipper), 3/ long distance sleeved trisuit (virklon), 4/ kiwami speedsuit on top of sleeved suit, 5/ speedo again (fatigue verification).

I ended up on average doing
1/ 1'22, 2/ 1'18, 3/ 1'18, 4/ 1'16, 5/ 1'22 (with individual 100s at +-1s). My notes from the day are that I felt most buoyancy in the swimsuit as well (which may be purely in my head, I'd expect it reduces drag instead). I had my wetsuit with me, but the pool did not allow using it so I can't really say precisely. I would suppose I swim about 1'13 at same effort in the wetsuit (Zone3 vanquish).
It takes me at most 10s to remove it, whether the price is worth the ca (30s) 1min time gained on (half) ironman distance is up to you.

Regarding the kiwami especially, I wish they had an M tall sizing. I had to take M for a tight fit around the belly but it definitely is stretched maximally to get from crotch to shoulders...

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https://besse.info/
https://www.strava.com/athletes/2012033

You're quite welcome. I found it to be pretty much a no brainer. I also had a very small amount of additional time in taking it off, as one drops the top down as you run thru T1 and then just drop the rest at the bike and step out into cycling shoes, so maybe 2 seconds. As far as the Xterra post above, they are quite known for their fragile nature, thus why they seem to run sales constantly. Get what you pay for ;-). Mine is far from fragile and has lasted a few years.

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Kiwami Racing Team

Yeah the Xterra ones are pretty poor quality. The first one I got ripped when I first put it on. I think other brands use different material and are more robust? Ive got a Arena Powerskin which I use for OWS and that's far better quality.

25 seconds to take off man you need to practice. Mine is pretty much off by the time I’m about to touch my bike. Does it take you 25 seconds to take off a pair of shorts? Because the whole thing should be down to a pair of shorts by the time you get to the bike.

Could you give some insight to sleeved vs sleeveless swimskins? I am going to get one, but not sure if the get one with sleeves or without sleeves.

The Xterra suit I have is paper thin, shit quality, if I was to pull it off quickly I'd rip the shit out of it.

I’ve owned a number of them, going back to the Blue Seventy point zero models before they were banned in some races. The TYR Torque Pro was/is a solid and pretty durable choice in a non sleeve swimskin and does come with a zipper lanyard so that you can zip up and down by yourself. I also own the Roka Viper Elite in both long john and sleeved models. The fabric is different than the TYR and gives a very compressed feel. No lanyard so you need someone to zip you up, but it peels off easily. I like the Roka a lot and I use the short sleeve model in non-wetsuit swims. I find that it does streamline you and provides an advantage over a tri suit. With a little practice, taking it off is very quick. Both of these brands tend to “stretch” a bit with repeated use, but I feel they are a useful, quality product.

The Kiwami is similar to a tech suit that's 1 size bigger than would be optimal. A good fitting tech suit is faster than any swimskin IMO there is no comparison to the muscle / core compression (especially on a high waisted suit.)

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I tested the Kiwami (L) vs

1. Nike NG1 Tech Suit (28)
2. Briefs (30)
3. Speedo Fastskin Kneeskin (L)

I swam each trial at the same pace and then took HR (manually). I should repeat this test with my phlex edge tracking the HR. I would have to sub in another suit ie Arena Carbon Pro for #1 now and add my 2XU ITU suit.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Very interesting info, thanks Bo.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I tried the Kiwami sleeved swim skin, and pool tested it. I have big for my size, shoulders, chest and biceps (years of competitive wrestling)? The suit fit well below the chest, but felt like a straight jacket above that.
In my pool test I was 10 seconds slower per 100 with the swim skin, as compared to a standard speedo
(1:30 vs 1:20). This test was 5 x 100 x 4, alternating swim skin and no swim skin. These results were significantly influenced by the poor fit (for me). I do think the Kiwami suit was extremely well made, but only comes sleeved, and just does not have a size that will work for me.
How much time it will save you depends entirely on your swim position. If you swim fast, high on the water, I would expect 2-3 seconds per 100, at most. If you are a deep in the water tug boat, I think 7-10 seconds is possible. These suits are not legal if they have ANY buoyancy, so are all about drag reduction!
I bought a sleeveless Roka swim skin, and wore it with my sleeved Kiwami Trisuit underneath last year in Campeche. At 65 years old I had the 3rd fastest swim for 50+, and fastest by 6 minutes in my AG. That is obviously not a test, but I am confident it did not make me slower :-)
In regard to sleeved vs no sleeves, I think it depends entirely on a persons build. Personally, I doubt the sleeves will make you any faster.
In regard to top down or up- in my experience I found it very difficult to get the wet top pulled on, and for anyone who watched Miami you would have seen the world’s best, and most prepared triathlete, loose at least 15 minutes in transition in the wrestling match with pulling up his top. Top up, but mostly unzipped, is the way to go! Any of the current tops are make with high stretch, compressive sleeves, and they will not take in any water! (If they do, they would also create drag on the bike, so get a new suit!)

Sleeved: seems to be slightly faster: and you do not have to roll yout trisuit down and up under it.
Sleeveless: interesting for people who feel constrained in the shoulder with a sleeved swim-skin.



In the pool I saw a trend I swim 15s per 400m faster with a kiwami aquarush compared to a speedo:

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/New_sleeved_swim_skin_(Kiwami)_P6211756-2 (see post #45)

O god, talking about swimming: I did not swim since November due to the pandemy.