After a bit of searching, it seems like the FDR ride would be solid.

What's the story with the CSP races out in Golden? Those look like an absolute blast. Are those during the week?

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

I think that criterium racing is the greatest thing ever. It just does not have the respect of traditional road racing. It is a massive spectator and racer adrenaline rush.

I was very good in my youth. I almost entered an open Masters criterium in my area late 2019. Until every experienced cyclist I know said that was an asinine idea. They were probably right-- I had not done it in like 30 years. And getting a refresher during race probably wouldn't have been that bright.

Are crits more of an American thing? (I've been to one USA Crit race in Littleton and saw all the big names absolute crush it. It was such a fun event to spectate.)

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

I think they are huge in Europe, but someone else can chime in. I think that after the major tours, the teams send their riders out to many local criteriums throughout the continent.

In the US, Justin Williams is one of the key people driving awareness to the sport. I got to meet him in 2020, and he said that he is planning (hoping) to race in one of the major criteriums in my area in 2021. I told him that I will be bringing a full cheering section to that race.

I remember when he was a cat 5 in NC.

I saw your strava data (or IG post) from that ride. lol. Looks like a serious hammerfest. I may take the trip down there eventually.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

do a group ride where you get spit out of the back and have to chase back on at max effort. Do that over and over again for an hour and you are ready for a crit. Also get used to bumping and rubbing in a pack.

Bike racing is about firing all your arsenal against opponents so there are less and less of them "in the way" for the final actions.
A group ride is the opposite, usually it's about...riding "organised" in a group.
You need a strong start for criteriums. Being able to push 1000-1200 watts for when the "real" race starts (often from the gun) is needed to stay in the main pack. And like written earlier, a ton of 30"/30's and 15"/15's or variations of those are handy.
After seeing all those sketchy cat.5 american crit races, I would never enter a criterium there, unless it's a hilly one with a secure course, or one I'm sure I can ride safely.
That's form a guy who had two broken collarbones, and still trying to recover from a hard hit on the hip last summer...(all in crits) :/

Louis :-)

That was me in my one crit. Strong triathlete, not much bike handling skills. My boyfriend kept yelling at me to get in the pack (I was riding off the side because I was scared), finally I just went to the front. I figured if I wasn't going to get the draft advantage being in a pack then I might as well lead the race. Good strategy except I was outgunned during the prem laps and bell lap, where I was destroyed by the people drafting off me the whole time. My only redemption (in my mind) was after the race someone said they had never done a crit with such a fast average pace. (Not saying I was crazy fast, but I couldn't stand the fast/slow tactics so I just went to the front with a strong steady effort.)

I think I would start with road races before a crit.

steady and fast are usually the easiest races, as the accordion effect is reduced.

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I love it when someone in another thread tries to "roadie-splain" the significance of bike handling skills to a regular in our classics thread. :)

Said ‘splainer probably has no idea just how accomplished Carl Spackler is as a road racer

The biggest crashes I have seen were in road races, long stretches were the group rolls at 30 and people loose focus trying to drink, or on big long descents. That's not to say crashes can't be bad in crits, but it tends to be a lot of sliding out not full blast over the bars crashes.

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FDR is absolutely solid. Attacks, hills, sprints, so much fun. 43 miles. Moves to 7am in the next month or so. Prompt departure, 7:01 and we are long gone.

CSP is a weekday series. Cat 4-5 race together, and Cat P123, race together. No age adjustments, just the two races. Super safe course, nothing technical except the wind. Sprint laps every 3rd lap also heats things up a bit. My favorite as it is all about power, positioning and hanging on for a really long sprint finish.

I found FDR to be a bit too much about fear of getting dropped. Still a good ride.

CSP crit is a lot of fun. Usually very safe. 123 race typically averages 28.4 mph. Takes me 4 weeks or so to develope the top end then I'm good to hang on.

The 4/5 race can get squirelly at the back. I'd advise to stay near the front third for safety and constantly be monitoring wheels. Stay away from the sketchy wheels and stick to the steady wheels. Highly recommended as a great intro to crits.

Cobb Lake is a perfect training race. Stay near the front in the 4s or 5s for safety.

Riding in the breakaway is not at all like a TT. For the break to establish, you will need to ride for several minutes high in your VO2 Max zone; then once the break is stable assuming you are with a few others you'll be 'recovering' at 90% FTP and taking pulls at >110% FTP. There will be an additional VO2 effort after every corner so on a course with 4 corners it's easy to have 100 of those accelerations. Crit racing in the break will get you a variability index of well over 1.3 . Even in a solo break (which is extremely rare) the cornering will wear you out from the endless repeat of a few seconds of coasting followed by getting back up to speed after each corner.

You can't learn much in group rides that will help you in a crit. You get better at racing crits by racing crits. That said, you may show up and still be 'making' the race and having a total blast and decide it's much more thrilling than triathlon (because it is). So purely from an experiences perspective you should definitely go for it. But as others have said - crashes happen especially in Cat 5 races, so beware.

Back when I grew up and raced bikes in Europe we had little to no crits - only road races. The only exceptions were the crits after the Tour de france which aren't even real racing; the are an exhibition event that draws huge crowds since the fans can now see the biggest stars but the race itself is a show and the outcome is pre-determined. They do not count as official wins.

Crit racing in the US is a different beast - here in Socal >80% of the races are crits. Races are super fast and strategic and a win is a real win.

This is exactly the kind of rider that took me out in a crit - a college chick showed up to watch her boyfriend race and he talked her into jumping into the race even though she had no pack riding experience. She got bumped and freaked out and slammed into me. I tried to ride it out but she ping ponged between me and another girl and took out my front wheel. I spent the rest of the day in half the night at the emergency room at Stanford.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Well I didn’t cause anyone going to the ER. It was a Cat 4 race and not sure where else I should’ve started. I know how to hold a line, I was just saying I wasn’t comfortable in the pack, nobody was bouncing off of anyone. Sorry you had a bad experience.

He may be a f...goat on the crit circus, but telling a crit Newby that Zwift is a great way to prepare for crit ‘physiology’ (whatever that entails), is poor coaching advice.

Two things. First, your most recent argument (re: physiology) is completely irrelevant to the bike handling aspect quoted in your most recent post.

Next, of course Zwift racing doesn't duplicate the surge/coast dynamics as well as IRL technical crit does, but highly precise duplication of such dynamics isn't needed when the training stimulus is sufficiently close, and Zwift racing certainly does that. What is needed is the right type of stimuli to force the body to be able to adapt to the constant surges. For the most physiologically demanding crits (those with narrow roads and short straightaways), that's the ability to lay down short spurts of power for 10-20 seconds at 200% FTP or more, recover (combination of coasting and pedaling at up to 60% FTP), before laying down similar amount of power again. Rinse and repeat, until 40 minutes has been reached.

Tabatas could lead to the ability to do this, but I never did true Tabatas back when I raced, and I managed to cope just fine. What I did focus on was over-under intervals where I had to do over 130% for a minute, recover at 90%, and repeat. That, and other types of over-under intervals made sure that I could weather the type of surges that occur in some of the most physiologically demanding of crits (see below). For this particular race I did, there were some 50+ surges where I at least temporarily exceeded 200% FTP. In training, none of my rides came close to being as full of surges, yet the training applied the right stimuli, and those are substantially similar to the stimuli induced by a Zwift crit race. If nothing else, Zwift crit race is essentially a long over-under work out, with 30-60 second bursts that come pretty close to 130%, while recover at ~65-70%. Perhaps not as ideal as some of the more specialized training, but it certainly stresses the system that need to be stressed so that one could handle the surges.

While pretty much everything has been said already, some additional information:

• The RR course you're thinking of is about as tame as it gets. Moderate rollers, and only 2 180 degree turns per lap. It will probably be windy, though, and everyone will be fighting for the draft. Much like a windy day at FDR.
• FDR info such as route and start time change can be found on Facebook, on the "Northeast Denver Cycling Ride Board" group. I've done FDR for years. Hardly any corners. Friendly, diverse group. Know the route because it is a drop ride, and no double-backs, so if the group gets away you're on your own, or with others that get dropped. There is often a groupetto, so don't think it's just you and the prairie dogs if you do get dropped.
• Park Hill Peloton info is usually posted on Strava, in the "Elite Moon Units" group, but it rarely changes. Meets at 6:30 AM at the Cherry Creek Bike Path and Holly every Tuesday and Friday. Tame through town to the Cherry Creek Reservoir, then hard. It's an out-and-back, so people that get dropped can join back in. A hearty bunch that will ride almost any morning it's not actively precipitating. The roads in the Park are about to undergo several months of maintenance, so expect regular disruptions.
• Worlds is a ride that starts at Wadsworth and Deer Creek Canyon Road on Saturdays. Information is posted regularly on the Facebook group "Ode To Worlds." Can be frightfully huge and sketchy. Route varies due to pissed off residents and park employees (see previous statement). Deep pool of talent. Usually more modestly paced extra-credit miles afterwards up Deer Creek and beyond.
• The CSP races are cheap, well run and a great chance to improve your racing acumen with little stress. They don't start until end of June.

I need to buy you a beer for this. This is exactly what I was looking for (w/ re: to area group rides). Thank you!

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

You are welcome. Hope to see you out there. I'm happy to help out if you have any other questions.