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Re: Dr Suess Too? [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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Steve Hawley wrote:
It’s a shame how context seems to matter so little anymore.

Amen brother!

I'm gonna continue to decry this silencing and erasure of history---whether it be a Budda; a song; a book; a work of art. It's erasure of history. Who are we in our smug self-righteous little temporary spot in history to assume we know what's best and right about all that has gone before us and all that will come after us. What arrogance. Exemplified by comments of many of the smug self-righteous on this current forum. Nattering Nabobs of Negativism indeed.

Doesn't matter whether the good Dr's estate was bludgeoned into self-censorship or the mob took the books out the library and burnt them. They're no longer available!? EBay won't even let you sell them now!? Ain't that some modern shit?

Somewhere The Lorax (and MattinSF) is breathing a sigh of relief he escape the purge---for now.

Regarding the last picture by Dr S that Slowguy posted. Take it in context of WWII. Not saying it's right or wrong. Take it in the context of when it was written and where.

Very good book (it's academic so pretty dry stuff but wonderfully researched and exhaustively written) by John Dower----War Without Mercy: Race and Power in the Pacific War. Dower shows the racism used---by both sides---playing to their respective populaces' deepest fears so as to further national war aims. We're talking playing to deepest collective fears here to manipulate a national populace The picture Slowguy cited above come directly from that genre. Here are a couple more:

US Propaganda


Japanese propaganda---seems sophomoric at best to our current eye but understand the psyche of the Japanese populace back then and the intent and impact is very large



So the banning---or self banning--of six of Dr S's books doesn't seem like a big deal. In the micro it's not. In the macro it's yet another small step towards a dark future. And we've only to look back a few decades to see how bad that future can be

*Shout out to a personal stab to my heart by Woke Liberals where one of my childhood favorites was stripped of a prestigious book award title because a few lines she wrote. Laura Ingalls Wilder's "Little House on the Prarie" series
https://www.npr.org/...emoved-from-book-awa

Who is erasing history? Are these books gone, can you not find them anymore? Are they being burned in the town square? Not putting something out for public consumption on a daily basis does not equate to erasing history. They aren't banned, they just aren't being published further. You do see the difference? The example you gave regarding the history book pretty much shows how that information can be used in the future.

Most of the libraries I've read about are keeping the Dr. Seuss books on the shelf but may be moving them to different areas instead of the children's section. There are a few who are looking at, or have removed them, but my guess is that will change and those who did remove them will put them back as historical information.

With the stab to your heart, did they destroy all of her books or just take her name off an award? What history was erased? With that being said, I think it's silly to remove her name but I have not been in any position to be offended by her writing.

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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We’re taking steps toward a dark future? One filled with Easy Reader books which are devoid of racist images or words?

It might ease that stabbing pain in your heart to know that the vast majority of classics are still being read and discussed in schools. For instance, my son read Of Mice and Men this year. It contains racism (the n-word), sexism, violence, ableism. These books will be read and discussed in high school and college. It’s not like they’re being burned. Liberals don’t burn books. We just move them to a different, clearly labeled bookshelf.

What do you want? Do you want to keep Dr Suess books and expect kindergarten teachers to discuss racial issues as they work on sight words with 5 year olds?
Last edited by: CallMeMaybe: Mar 5, 21 9:27
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [TheRef65] [ In reply to ]
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This whole thing is really pissing me off. It is clear the GOP has nothing. Their big issues right now are that the owners of 6 books they never knew existed decided to not print them any more and what name a plastic potato should go by.

It is all just bullshit to distract from their actual bad acts and refusal to act on real issues. And their acolytes just fall in line.

We might be so ever so slightly less fucked.
Last edited by: j p o: Mar 5, 21 10:25
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
This whole thing is really pissing me off. It is clear the GOP has nothing. There big issues right now are that the owners of 6 books they never knew existed decided to not print them any more and what name a plastic potato should go by.

It is all just bullshit to distract from their actual bad acts and refusal to act on real issues. And their acolytes just fall in line.

You forgot frozen windmills
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [CallMeMaybe] [ In reply to ]
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There are about zero Kindergarten teachers reading Dr Seuss and having to address racial questions from their students---unless said students have been primed to do so by activist parents.

Just let the books be. They will sink or swim on their own based on their merits and desire for reading. Based on my understanding of modern teaching methods there is about zero teachers out there using these books anyways. So let the books be. Let the statues be, and recognize them within their context. Let the Buddas be. as they were for thousands of years. Let the poems stand. Let the fight song so many love go on [I'm a TAMU grad so don't really give a shit about UT]


Where is this hole in your life that you feel such a need to reach out and attack any and every thing you don't like or agree with?

Steve
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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Steve Hawley wrote:
There are about zero Kindergarten teachers reading Dr Seuss and having to address racial questions from their students---unless said students have been primed to do so by activist parents.

Just let the books be. They will sink or swim on their own based on their merits and desire for reading. Based on my understanding of modern teaching methods there is about zero teachers out there using these books anyways. So let the books be. Let the statues be, and recognize them within their context. Let the Buddas be. as they were for thousands of years. Let the poems stand. Let the fight song so many love go on [I'm a TAMU grad so don't really give a shit about UT]


Where is this hole in your life that you feel such a need to reach out and attack any and every thing you don't like or agree with?

Two things, well three actually.

As for Suess: let words stand and redraw the Asian character and others as required. Add in some racial historical perspective as an added teaching moment. Also so neat that in pre K virtual school for grandson, they just read Green Eggs and Ham this week. Nana and the teacher had a lovely chat about how that was their first book they learned to actually read. One more thing about green eggs, . I never did read that book as a child, but I was served and ate green eggs and green ham for breakfast as the opening event to a near on day long initiation ceremony while crossing that famous line at sea. I am sure with women now at sea that ritual may have undergone some sensitivity updating as well.

And lastly, it is not holes in one's life that causes one to address perceived wrongs, but rather the size of one's heart.
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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Where is your boundary?

Clearly you're one of the pure here on this forum in your denigration of Dr S. So you pass that purity test. Leaping on to the next test to show purity where does it go?

Let me give you a example that just needs cleaning up. American Literature. It's horrible. Filled with impurities that can't be tolerated by good thinking folk like you and me.

Why this piece of work that some aclaim as a modern piece of word art--a great American Novel (and even made into a movie so many enjoy).

Lonesome Dove

Filled with racist talk. Can't have that. Need to get this book off the public market ASAP


New mission for you

Steve
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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Brother

I disagree. There are people out there with big hearts---like you. And then people that have holes in them they're trying to fill. Some of the later seek it here on this forum as they attempt to wrestle with what it is they're wrestling with.

Not to disparage them. They are different than you tho.

Steve
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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Holes in life or large hearts? Opinions or assholes? I'll just end with the current source for most all our (well, some of us) collective grievance owns no heart and has lived a life with the express intent to generate only holes in others. I'd die happy having engaged him in a wrestling match.
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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dont let him put your hip joint out of socket if you get to wraslin

Steve
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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Seeing as how he has already set my mind off course and out of socket, no worries about further damage here. If pain inflicted equals pain received, I still die happy. No refs no illegal holds.
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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Steve Hawley wrote:
Where is this hole in your life that you feel such a need to reach out and attack any and every thing you don't like or agree with?

Why do you feel attacked?

Is criticism of things you love an attack on you?

I grew up with Dr. Suess, Little House on the Prairie, Walt Disney, church, Bible stories. I like that stuff. There is good stuff in there. I loved Laura Ingalls Wilder so much that my mom sewed a country style dress, apron and poofy bonnet that I wore on picture day in 2nd grade. The picture is absolutely hilarious. I’ll share it if I can find it.

I don’t feel personally attacked when people criticize those things. My heart is feeling whole and robust. I’m not seeing the hole.

Your heart has stabbing pain. Why are you hurting? This is probably very important to think about because if we can figure it out, you’ll be happier. Your happiness is important.
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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Doesn't matter whether the good Dr's estate was bludgeoned into self-censorship or the mob took the books out the library and burnt them.


Just curious where you stood on the right wings beliefs that players should be forced to stand during the national anthem or the players would be suspended.

A step towards our dark future of the mob bludgeoning people into conforming to their beliefs. I assume you actively talked about how the right wing was bad on bludgeoning people into their own beliefs.
Last edited by: sosayusall: Mar 5, 21 13:11
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [CallMeMaybe] [ In reply to ]
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Because he likes and supports those things and it pains him that people are moving on from his values and beliefs from 1852
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Re: Dr Suess Too? [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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I doubt Steve Hawley likes the portions of the books that people find offensive. He probably thinks that the good parts outweigh the bad.

I was talking with someone who said she doesn’t censor things for her kids. She wants them to know the real world— she takes the good with the bad. She’s a realist.

I don’t like compromises in quality when it comes to certain things for my kids. I buy the kid jewelry that doesn’t contain unhealthy metals. I buy food that hasn’t expired. It’s undeniable that some communities have lead in the water, just as racism exists in media. We could be realists and accept lead in water because it exists, just as we could use books with racially offensive content because they exist. But that’s normalizing and accepting inferior products.

I think this general topic is more important than the specifics of this little Dr. Suess case. I’m guessing that teaching acceptance and equality to young kids has probably been the largest driving force in changing America’s attitudes about race. The equality gains seem to come as new generations enter adulthood— it’s not through some shift in the thinking of adults. In fact, we excuse older Americans for their racist beliefs constantly— we do everything in our power to be hands-off with those venerable racists.

If racism is learned, then why in good heavens wouldn’t we be very careful about what happens in our institutions of learning?
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