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TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way??
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I use/write structured workouts in TrainingPeaks. Works well with Wahoo ELEMNT App, Wahoo Bolt, & Wahoo KICKR.

My clients who have Tacx smart trainers, and Wahoo ELEMNT Bolt head units, have to import to something like Zwift from TrainingPeaks, to get the structured workouts to be driven in erg mode on their Tacx trainers.

Zwift has been crashing a LOT for a couple of my clients. During workouts. Frustratingly for the clients. Clients desire something other than Zwift based on their recent experiences.

Is there a another/better way to get TrainingPeaks structured workouts to run a Tacx trainer?? I suspect clients MAY be open to purchasing something to make it work more seamlessly but keeping costs low/minimal would be nice.

Or, is this a common issue that can be avoided with some update or different method?

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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I'm using a elemnt bolt and a neo 2t, when the workout pops up on the bolt from TP it controls the trainer in erg mode. Maybe they're not pairing the trainer directly to the head unit?
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Ant+ for power/cadence sensors in zwift then use bluetooth in tacx app to control the trainer for the workout within the tacx app

If zwift is crashing, have them do all workouts on tempus fugit route. I have never crashed on that route

Strava
Last edited by: RossJ: Feb 13, 21 11:34
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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What computer are they using, and what are their settings on zwift? I don't ride zwift a ton, but I've been using it off and on since beta and never really had issues with it crashing. My best guess is either they're running it on a potato or their graphics settings are too high for their machine's capabilities. I'd check that first, because IMO the trainingpeaks workout import to zwift is pretty fantastic.

You can also tell them to try uninstalling and reinstalling zwift. That will take care of any update issues, although i'm pretty sure you can't turn off updates so they should be fine there. My best guess is hardware. Sounds like lots of people have success with an apple TV, might make for a more consistently stable user experience? I kinda hate apple though, so it hurts a little to make that recommendation :P
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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imswimmer328 wrote:
What computer are they using, and what are their settings on zwift? I don't ride zwift a ton, but I've been using it off and on since beta and never really had issues with it crashing. My best guess is either they're running it on a potato or their graphics settings are too high for their machine's capabilities. I'd check that first, because IMO the trainingpeaks workout import to zwift is pretty fantastic.
You can also tell them to try uninstalling and reinstalling zwift. That will take care of any update issues, although i'm pretty sure you can't turn off updates so they should be fine there. My best guess is hardware. Sounds like lots of people have success with an apple TV, might make for a more consistently stable user experience? I kinda hate apple though, so it hurts a little to make that recommendation :P
Apple devices. Good there.
RossJ wrote:
Ant+ for power/cadence sensors in zwift then use bluetooth in tacx app to control the trainer for the workout within the tacx app
If zwift is crashing, have them do all workouts on tempus fugit route. I have never crashed on that route
Noted re: tempus fugit. Appreciated!
Seanburke wrote:
I'm using a elemnt bolt and a neo 2t, when the workout pops up on the bolt from TP it controls the trainer in erg mode. Maybe they're not pairing the trainer directly to the head unit?

Seems plausible. Would be great if this works for them.

Thanks, all. I'll report back if issues persist.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Just for clarification. When they say crashing is it that Zwift actually completely shuts down? or is their trainer, HRM, etc. dropping out and not able to reconnect automatically? Recently I've been dealing with a ton of drop outs where I have to get off the bike and reset all my connections.
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Please take this as an honest attempt to support. I've used zwift with custom workouts for 3 years not, and via training peaks for the last year. Not had any crashes. My wife has had a couple of zwift training programme workouts not save, but not crashes. Both running windows PCs and TAxc neo via Ant+.

So my first question is how are you creating the workouts - in TP builder? I'm wondering if the issue is related to the actual workout file - you say that it's common throughout your group, so I'm wondering if that's a commonality. Do the crashes happen at the same point in the session/ same sessions?

I'm also aware that DC Rainmaker has been having issues of late with Ipad zwift, especially on busy 'worlds'. I tend to go for the lesser populated world by choice when doing erg, just as too many people around annoys me with the weaving around not that it changes the actual workout.

Lastly, my zwift rigs were NZ99 each - off lease desktops. Noting the $ people put into gear / coaching, having dedicated zwift machines is a very cost effective way of not missing sessions. Worth considering perhaps?
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting. Thank you. Many sessions have a high number of intervals. Could that be problematic?

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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When I was making them directly in zwift, I tended not to use the intervals feature, but actually copy/paste and create them all as separate.

The sets I get from my coach tend to be more 3/4 intervals, with a recovery then repeat, repeat repeat... Ie 4or 5 interval - rest - 4/5 intervals-rest-4/5 intervals.

Some of my sets also come with cadence target, so that's not likely to be it.

How many interval repeats and what durations? you're setting target power I assume. What 'band' are you setting as the power target? My sets seem to have a 5% or 10% band (then zwift just sets the target at the midpoint of that rounded to nearest 5 watts. You're not setting to the same upper/lower are you?
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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No, I routinely do high intensity intervals workouts with up to 50 separate sections and intervals(Crit Racer). I've never had it crash on the AppleTV or PC and I do the vast majority of my rides and workout indoors on zwift.
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
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cabdoctor wrote:
No, I routinely do high intensity intervals workouts with up to 50 separate sections and intervals(Crit Racer). I've never had it crash on the AppleTV or PC and I do the vast majority of my rides and workout indoors on zwift.

Just helping Dr Alex here, but do you do high rep intervals (ie 10x intervals). I've done sets with loads of separate specified blocks, but perhaps I'm over-reading into something said above, keen to rule out that there's some bug in ipads when the intervals get repeated many times.
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Duncan74 wrote:
cabdoctor wrote:
No, I routinely do high intensity intervals workouts with up to 50 separate sections and intervals(Crit Racer). I've never had it crash on the AppleTV or PC and I do the vast majority of my rides and workout indoors on zwift.


Just helping Dr Alex here, but do you do high rep intervals (ie 10x intervals). I've done sets with loads of separate specified blocks, but perhaps I'm over-reading into something said above, keen to rule out that there's some bug in ipads when the intervals get repeated many times.

The users have experienced crashes on TrainingPeaks workouts that have between 30 and 250 separate intervals. I prescribe a ramp warm-up in TrainingPeaks which often has 15-30 steps, and often prescribe micro intervals (oscillations in power) during even basic aerobic work. Nothing fancy, just boredom-prevention!

Thoughts?

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Are you specifying each element of ramp warmup/down or using the duration and the start/end point.

And what's the shortest time of 'micro intervals'?

Honestly, there shouldn't be any crashes with what you are doing, but trying to understand why it's happening here but not elsewhere.

(Also see your private messages)
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Duncan74 wrote:
Are you specifying each element of ramp warmup/down or using the duration and the start/end point.

And what's the shortest time of 'micro intervals'?

Honestly, there shouldn't be any crashes with what you are doing, but trying to understand why it's happening here but not elsewhere.

(Also see your private messages)

I'm specifying specific durations of each ramp step, in many cases. But the crashes have not happened during the warm-up, in case that's useful. Crashes have happened mid-ride during longer intervals (like a 20min test... haha)

Shortest micro intervals 10 seconds or maybe even 5 seconds on some workouts, but I don't believe those have been when crashes are happening. Shortest interval duration on the workouts that have crashed have been more in the 30-sec range, I believe. And there have been workouts that have crashed where the shortest interval is 1-min, but the crash does not happen near that 1-min interval, but during the middle of a much longer (6-30min) interval.

All the above provided for your situational awareness. Very much appreciate any insight!

Checking private messages shortly.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, I rode the long / low intervals set this AM and it completed fine. So the file itself isn't the issue. Minor thing as I'm old fashioned, I noted that you had 'characters' in the names of both files you emailed - an '!' and a '+' which nowadays shouldn't be an issue for programming back when I was doing it would cause computers to throw odd moments. But again I'd expect that would be an issue in the menus, not half way through.

Which then brings me back to the general zwift instabilty some people have had on ipads of late n(again, see DC Rainmaker for that). And so there the advice is avoid busy worlds.

The other thing, and this is back to your very first post, what alternatives are there. Well if your athletes have Garmin headunits or watches at the upper end of th erange, they can use them to control the Tacx and Kickr units. I am not sure if you can directly link those to TP, or if youn eed to export from TP and then import into Garmin, but I've used my FR935 to drive a session before (can't remember why).

There is a tacx structured workout app, but I'll be honest I just couldn't get my head around it. Was a pain needing to create new accounts, needed both PC and phone apps to build and use.
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Duncan74 wrote:
Ok, I rode the long / low intervals set this AM and it completed fine. So the file itself isn't the issue. Minor thing as I'm old fashioned, I noted that you had 'characters' in the names of both files you emailed - an '!' and a '+' which nowadays shouldn't be an issue for programming back when I was doing it would cause computers to throw odd moments. But again I'd expect that would be an issue in the menus, not half way through.

Which then brings me back to the general zwift instabilty some people have had on ipads of late n(again, see DC Rainmaker for that). And so there the advice is avoid busy worlds.

The other thing, and this is back to your very first post, what alternatives are there. Well if your athletes have Garmin headunits or watches at the upper end of th erange, they can use them to control the Tacx and Kickr units. I am not sure if you can directly link those to TP, or if youn eed to export from TP and then import into Garmin, but I've used my FR935 to drive a session before (can't remember why).

There is a tacx structured workout app, but I'll be honest I just couldn't get my head around it. Was a pain needing to create new accounts, needed both PC and phone apps to build and use.

Thank you very much for the deep dive into my issues here! Very much appreciated.

I will recommend avoidance of busy worlds on Zwift.

I do have a client who rebuilds some of my less complex workouts in Tacx's builder but reports similarly to you.

Thanks again!

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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I used to use Trainer Road - export the TP workout into TR and have TR control the trainer via ERG mode.

I did use Trainer Day a few times as well. Very similar, and costs less.
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [greenlawnracing] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you!!

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube β†’ Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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Re: TrainingPeaks Structured Workouts ----> Erg Mode on Tacx: Is there a better way?? [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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I use TrainerRoad to execute my coach’s workouts. She’s adds it in TP and when I open up TrainerRoad on iPhone its on the calendar. Easy. But not sure clients would want to pay TrainerRoad price just for that
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