Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Overwhelmed by wheel choices
Quote | Reply
I gave my wheels to LOML so I need to get a new pair for myself.
  • I need a pair that I can ride in any condition.
  • Right now I'm only doing sprints but will move back to 70.3 in a couple years.
  • My goal races will be windy, hot and flat. Think Lubbock 70.3 or Galveston.
  • I'm riding a Cervelo P3X so that means disc brakes.
  • 6'1" and 172 lbs.
  • Bike handling skills of a brain damaged lemur.
  • At a big race, I'm MOP. I will never podium at any 70.3 race. I can't imagine KQ.
  • At a small neighborhood sprint I'm either 3rd or within 2 minutes of it.

Here are my assumptions and questions.

#1 assumption, just go to HED or Zipp and buy their top of the line 60/90 or 60/Disc combo. It is not worth any more time or effort to try and find the "best".
  • For a sprint, wheels don't mean a whole lot. Best case 60" faster than stock wheels but probably a lot less.
  • I should get tubeless ready wheels but latex is basically as fast, maybe easier.
  • Question - Looking at someone like Zipp or HED, is there any reasonable speed difference between their top of the line and one of their cheaper models?
  • Question - Given my bike handling skills a 60/90 combo will give me almost all the aero gains with the best chance to use at any race in any conditions.
  • A disc is worth considering, it may be more stable in cross winds and will be __ seconds faster than a 60/90 but it will be a lot of $$ per second.
  • There is no reason to buy both a 60/90 and a Disc

Quote Reply
Re: Overwhelmed by wheel choices [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In general, no it doesn't matter as far as speed goes.

Most wheels are within 5 watts of each other. 5W = .5sec/km so 90km is 45sec. If you were trying to qualify for world championships, then maybe, but for most MOP riders ~1min isn't all that significant. Compared to a box rim, yea you are savings 4-5min but Zipp Vs Enve Vs HED, not so much.

The elephant in the room issue is tires make a huge difference on where they all stack up, so knowing which is fastest is not an easy task unless you test them all with the tires you use in a tunnel on your bike, etc...

There are still other things that matter, how they do in cross winds, how flexy they are, how easy a tube is to change, longevity, weight, looks, etc... But I would say the big name brands (HED, Zipp, Enve) all have similar cross wind stability and you can find people who swear one is better than the other on each of them.
Last edited by: blackey: Feb 4, 21 11:04
Quote Reply
Re: Overwhelmed by wheel choices [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
A disc will make you more stable in crosswinds. It takes a lot of the initial push out of every gust that's really what throws you around. Plus, my understanding is that a beam bike benefits much more from using a disc. I'd get an aerocoach aeox disc and zephyr front. Fast wheels, really reasonable prices, and you get the cool factor of riding something a little different.
Quote Reply
Re: Overwhelmed by wheel choices [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tomljones3 wrote:

  • I need a pair that I can ride in any condition.
  • Right now I'm only doing sprints but will move back to 70.3 in a couple years.
  • My goal races will be windy, hot and flat. Think Lubbock 70.3 or Galveston.

  • I'm riding a Cervelo P3X so that means disc brakes.
  • 6'1" and 172 lbs.

  • Bike handling skills of a brain damaged lemur.
  • At a big race, I'm MOP. I will never podium at any 70.3 race. I can't imagine KQ.
    Here are my assumptions and questions.

    #1 assumption, just go to HED or Zipp and buy their top of the line 60/90 or 60/Disc combo. It is not worth any more time or effort to try and find the "best".
    • For a sprint, wheels don't mean a whole lot. Best case 60" faster than stock wheels but probably a lot less.
    • I should get tubeless ready wheels but latex is basically as fast, maybe easier.
    • Question - Looking at someone like Zipp or HED, is there any reasonable speed difference between their top of the line and one of their cheaper models?
    • Question - Given my bike handling skills a 60/90 combo will give me almost all the aero gains with the best chance to use at any race in any conditions.
    • A disc is worth considering, it may be more stable in cross winds and will be __ seconds faster than a 60/90 but it will be a lot of $$ per second.
    • There is no reason to buy both a 60/90 and a Disc


read this post: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=7346345#p7346345 this lays out a compelling case for a disc wheel.
Although EVERYONE in the M50-54 should use box rims. <---- #TRUTH ;-)

IMO, and others may disagree, the 2 fastest wheel manufacturers currently seem to be HED and Aerocoach. I'd get the deepest wheel up front that you felt comfy handling and the disc. We both ride P3x's, mine came with Swiss Side 60mms. The Hed Vanquish disc & 80mm front wheel, most likely run tubeless, will be the set of wheels on my bike at races. I stocked up on some latex tubes before last season that never began so may run latex for a season. If I was not going with a disc then get the deepest rear wheel offered. Although always a disc I always say. The 60mm wheelset is a fine bike racing wheelset and that + training is what I'll use them for. Sure, many race tri's on that depth yet they are also leaving time on the table. Why step over dimes and nickels to pick up pennies?

If you look at Hed it seems that the vanquish line is a bit lighter and has more wheel depth options.

While you say seconds don't matter let me run a scenario by you that happened/is happening frequently in my coaching world. I often get athletes that say My time to train is X, I'm middle of the pack and just want to be the best triathlete/bike racer/runner/duathlete I can be within my constraints. This sounds like you right now and I say go for it & be the best athlete you can be! Yet bear with me and ponder this next bit.

A pandemic hit and several that I coach now find themselves WFH, quit their jobs & launched business/consulting ventures or are in new jobs and/or with new companies some with more flexible schedules. Some of them have been able to increase their training time significantly. They are now riding around with FTPs that are 20-30w greater, running 1 min per 10k faster in training, at the same or lower PRE & HR, compared to this time last year. They now realize they have a chance to qualify for 70.3 worlds or go top 10 at USATAGNC in their AG. Their entire mindset has changed bc the pandemic forced them to change lots things. While this may not be you, or if it is, and no matter what your race goals, would you rather have the fastest wheels possible under you or have a wheels that may be :15/20k slower?

Hope that helps you frame your thoughts!

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Last edited by: desert dude: Feb 4, 21 12:05
Quote Reply
Re: Overwhelmed by wheel choices [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I was in your same position and went with HED. Actually, I just took delivery of a HED 6/9 Jet+ Black tonight, and I am not too impressed. I am likely going to return them.
-The fairing of the 6 is REALLY thin and flimsy. The 9 is much stronger. I seriously can imagine running over a large stone or having a stone shoot my way while riding (or running over a branch etc). and breaking or damaging the fairing. I heard people talk about it and it was discussed in a few you tube videos-but man-it is really flimsy.
-The fairings also have a "lip" or peak on them that you can clearly see and feel with your hand. It is not a smooth rounding or rounded area. I would have anticipated the carbon fairing portion would have been flexed or molded from the rim to rim (hope this is clear).

For $1200-$1500 a set, this is not what I thought I would get. I know that the HEDs tested really well, but I do not see my exact set of wheels being durable to use frequently. And, I don't want to drop that much $ for race day only wheels.

Back to the drawing board for me.
Quote Reply
Re: Overwhelmed by wheel choices [littlefoot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I've put about 40,000 miles on a set of Jet 6's as my primary wheels. Never had a problem with the fairings in any way. In fact, the only issue I had with the set was when I hit a pothole so hard that it dented the aluminum rim. Hed sold me a crash replacement for that wheel cheap. They are one of the single best purchases I've ever made.
Quote Reply
Re: Overwhelmed by wheel choices [littlefoot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
littlefoot wrote:
I was in your same position and went with HED. Actually, I just took delivery of a HED 6/9 Jet+ Black tonight, and I am not too impressed. I am likely going to return them.
-The fairing of the 6 is REALLY thin and flimsy. The 9 is much stronger. I seriously can imagine running over a large stone or having a stone shoot my way while riding (or running over a branch etc). and breaking or damaging the fairing. I heard people talk about it and it was discussed in a few you tube videos-but man-it is really flimsy.
-The fairings also have a "lip" or peak on them that you can clearly see and feel with your hand. It is not a smooth rounding or rounded area. I would have anticipated the carbon fairing portion would have been flexed or molded from the rim to rim (hope this is clear).

For $1200-$1500 a set, this is not what I thought I would get. I know that the HEDs tested really well, but I do not see my exact set of wheels being durable to use frequently. And, I don't want to drop that much $ for race day only wheels.

Back to the drawing board for me.

I agree with your initial impression—I had the same. but disagree with the assumption based on your impression that they will not last well or are not durable. First, I rode mine for years with absolutely no issue. I’m heavier and ride on bad roads sometimes. They hold up well. Second, since they aren’t structural, cracks won’t really matter. Something to think about.
Quote Reply
Re: Overwhelmed by wheel choices [jmechy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That is very impressive. I am equally impressed by your riding 40k miles!

I am not sure what your fairings look like, but these definitely did not inspire confidence in inspecting them. Especially since they were brand new.
Quote Reply
Re: Overwhelmed by wheel choices [littlefoot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
littlefoot wrote:
I was in your same position and went with HED. Actually, I just took delivery of a HED 6/9 Jet+ Black tonight, and I am not too impressed. I am likely going to return them.
-The fairing of the 6 is REALLY thin and flimsy. The 9 is much stronger. I seriously can imagine running over a large stone or having a stone shoot my way while riding (or running over a branch etc). and breaking or damaging the fairing.

I'd never even heard the word "fairing" before reading this thread, so feel free to disregard my comments. I've had a set of HED JET+ 6s for a couple of years and ridden many thousands of miles on the horrible roads of Chicago. On my first trip out, I hit a pothole big enough to blow my tire. They're still going strong so I've had no problems with their durability.
Quote Reply
Re: Overwhelmed by wheel choices [tomljones3] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Don’t buy Jets. The feel cheap. You can’t strap the bike to the roof of a car.

The difference between a 4, 6, 9 if you’re MOP is small and not really gonna matter especially if your bike handling skills suck. You’re doing this for fun. So unless giving your sphincter a working when your asshole puckers when you’re getting blown around on the road, just get some wheels that will allow you to relax and have fun. I think the Enve 5 or Zipp 303 is underrated for MOP age groups who want to look pro and buy wheels deeper than they can handle.

A disc in the rear is the way to go if budget allows.

For me the perfect combo when I ran rim brakes was Enve 5.6 and Enve Disc. I owned 303, 404, and 808 NSWs and sold them all. The 303/808 combo was good too, but the Zipp disc wasn’t tubeless ready and I wanted my wheels to match.

Since switching to Disc, I’m in love with the Roval Rapide CLX. That front wheel truly does handle as well as my Bora 35s.
Quote Reply