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Excessively Sore Quads
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Been about 2 weeks and my quads have been perpetually sore. Started after hitting a 2x20 bike workout @100% FTP and have been pretty sore after every run or ride since

I took some extra off days and reduced bike intensity and volume. During any bikes or runs they feel fine with the exception of running on steeper downhills and the real soreness comes after any run/bike even if its 30 minutes at a really easy pace on flatish ground. Neither quad is more sore than the other. I feel it most in walking down stairs or squatting to sit down.

I havent been hitting any huge volume numbers recently. Consistently in the 7-10 hour range for a bit and running has been mid 30s MPW only on easy runs which is well below what I have done before. Had planned on upping this volume in near future but am probably holding back until I figure this out

Any suggestions on what to do?
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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Whats your protein and other nutrition uptake like? Also, is it like post-lifting soreness or more fatigue and jell-o legs afterward? Do you do long enough cool downs? What are your "easy" days/weeks like?Lots of places to go here, so we need more info.

Matt Leu, M.S. Kinesiology
San Pedro Fit Works, Los Angeles, CA
Endurance Athlete and Coach
Consistency/time=results
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry for asking silly or maybe obvious questions:

-new pair of run shoes?
-new pair of bike shoes?
-replaced cleats on bike shoes recently?
-recently adjusted anything fit-wise on the bike?
-added any recent weight bearing exercises off the bike and excluding the run?
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [ironmatt85] [ In reply to ]
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ironmatt85 wrote:
Whats your protein and other nutrition uptake like? Also, is it like post-lifting soreness or more fatigue and jell-o legs afterward? Do you do long enough cool downs? What are your "easy" days/weeks like?Lots of places to go here, so we need more info.

I dont track exact nutrition numbers but I would say its a fairly balanced diet

They dont feel fatigued. More similar to post-lifting soreness Its more like a sharper pain when I move my leg in a certain way but not to a point where I am wincing in pain or am unable to do something. I can walk normally without any pain

Cool downs havent changed. Ive never done cool downs on easy runs though I normally ensure the last mile is on the slower side of things anyway. I would do 1-3 miles of easy running as a cool down after anything with intensity but I havent had run intensity in the past 2-3 months. Bike cooldowns are basically always 10 minutes spinning down from zone 2 to zone 1.

Easy weeks generally involve an extra day of no activity and only 1 day above zone 2 on the bike which may look like 4x10' @ 85-90% w/ 2 min easy pedaling or alternating between zone 2 and zone 3 on bike. I have recently been taking 1 day completely off and if I dont take that day off I will do an easy run or easy bike where I am either running +8 min pace (when normally am 7:00-7:30min/mile pace) or I spin in the little ring up front and am strictly under 55% FTP.

The rest of normal training weeks recently have had 4-5 runs hitting 30-35 mpw with 1 long run of 10-12 miles. I also have been doing 3 bike workouts a week on the trainer. 2x1 hour sessions during the week with 1 usually being threshold or over/unders and the other having some sweet spot mixed in. The weekend ride I will either go longer (2-2.5 hour range) and be zone 2 focused or i will go shorter (1.5 hour) and do sweet spot (such as 3x20' @ 90%)
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
Sorry for asking silly or maybe obvious questions:

-new pair of run shoes?
-new pair of bike shoes?
-replaced cleats on bike shoes recently?
-recently adjusted anything fit-wise on the bike?
-added any recent weight bearing exercises off the bike and excluding the run?

no silly questions. Nothing is different in any of these things though I have been increasing time spent on aerobars on the bike (which I was fitted to ~week before covid)
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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Ashley Horner would do more squats.
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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Have you been using a lower cadence for the 20's?
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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SnowChicken wrote:
Started after hitting a 2x20 bike workout @100% FTP and have been pretty sore after every run or ride since

Since this workout seems to be the presumptive cause, I would (1) re-test FTP to make sure you are using correct power numbers; and/or (2) try different cycling workouts to reduce soreness, assuming that is what you want to do.
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [jn46] [ In reply to ]
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just pulled it up and reps were 89 and 91 which is right around the norm for me unless I am doing a specific high cadence or low cadence workout
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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If it persists, you probably would need to check with your doctor to make sure something non-sports related is occuring. If you've started any new medications, that would be a likely candidate.
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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My quads are very sore during high-intensity periods of training (70.3/full IMs) and pushing bit watts on a bike for a long period of time. So sore that sometimes I feel pain in my knees when climbing stairs or squatting.
Massaging quads and foam rolling definitely help with overcoming the pain and getting better.
I suppose that special strength exercises could help, but I'm too lazy to do that. It also could be a genetic predisposition


Disclaimer: I haven't been to a doctor with this problem and it's just my personal experience after competing on a quite decent level as an AG.
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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Is your urine darker than normal? If so, go to the doctor now. Rhabdo is possible. Symptoms match. It's unlikely but worth asking.

If not, I've got nothing.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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Outside of something critical like rhabdomyolysis, a few thoughts:

Even with your volume of training I would, at a minimum, keep good track of protein, and probably a little more attention to carbs since you're doing more than 1 sweet spot and above workouts per week. 1.4 g of PRO per kilo is a good start.

You may have a some neural tension and/or imbalance of strength or mobility. Add some strength exercises and drills that work on mobility and muscular balance and active flexibility.

Matt Leu, M.S. Kinesiology
San Pedro Fit Works, Los Angeles, CA
Endurance Athlete and Coach
Consistency/time=results
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Ashley Horner would do more squats.

WWAHD

That is all that needs to be said.
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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If the quad muscles aren't getting enough blood flow and recovery nutrients, they are going to hurt big time. I had 20+ years of hockey, waterskiing, and cycling in mine.
Also if your leg/posture is "bent" and imbalanced (no back chain) the quads are over-burdened. That is what the PT says and I concur with that.

So 9 years ago my quads were soooo bad when I started triathlon and I was supposed to run, it was hell. Real hell.

1. Somebody posted about diet - I found that either glutamine or some of the best quality red meat (eg steak), helps for sure.
2. My muscle function /blood flow had to be restored so - IMS, took a bunch of needles in them.
3. Heavy duty rolling as much as I could crank it
4. Most powerful massage gun, and just laying into them with that.

Took a long time but the quads came around to functioning 1/2 way OK. Still working on the left outboard IT area.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com
Last edited by: SharkFM: Feb 5, 21 22:44
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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I would stretch your quads.
You don't indicate how often you are doing 2 x 20, but that is a hard effort. Everything should be zone 2 till you recover.


If you are not better by the end of this week you need more days off and/or substitute a 30 minute walk for you exercise for the day.
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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No background given as far as previous workouts before the 2x 20, but I would assume that was big jump in duration / intensity. Depending on how much recovery work you regularly do, the quads were probably getting progressively tighter before this effort, and the 2x 20 put it over the edge. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is hip mobility. The quads and ITB have connections into the hip, so if you're not addressing the hip and glutes youre're missing part of the puzzle. I would recommend ball rolling the glutes, including gluteus med and TFL at front / side. Yoga is a great option for hip mobility, focusing on quads, glutes and hip flexors. Lots of yoga available on you tube, but I really like downdog, very customizable and cheap, like $40 for a year... good many spent! Stay consistent with this stuff, it will not only help with the current issue, but help keep you injury free going forward. Good luck.
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [Johnny21] [ In reply to ]
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Based on recent days I think that you are right and that the 2x20 just pushed me a little too hard. They are feeling much better now and haven't felt any sort of pain in a few days

Yoga and more structured stretching will be something I'll look into though to avoid/mitigate this type of thing happening again
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Re: Excessively Sore Quads [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like your estimated FTP is too high or you have done very little riding at/near FTP.
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