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The theory behind tri bike fit did not change much since those days: steep seat tube for open hip angle, elbows on the arm rests and slack fork for better stability. Of course in a 30 years time span, things got a lot refined. many pro triathletes from that era had bike sponsors that could not provide dedicated tri bikes, therefore achieved an effective bike fit, through after-market seatposts etc. Actually I've never seen the Panasonic tri frame: I have some early 90's catalogues and they spot the PR road series (PR followed by a number, growing from 1000 to 6000, depending on the quality of the frame and components). I've seen pictures of the Panasonic pro team riding a time trial bike, with curved tubes and a smaller (650c) front wheel, though. Could you post a picture of your frame?

Thanks for the reply! I only have a tiny and not that meaningful picture of the frame. It is still (partially) packed up. But the top tube is not sloping or curved.

The frame is listed in the European Panasonic bicycle catalogue form 1993 as Triathlon Ltd outside the PR range. It is also listed as a 650c while this one is a 700c (I tested it with the front wheel with tyre).

My eyeball says that doesn’t look like a 78 seat angle. Did you measure it?

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No, not yet, sorry. But will do it.

I can confirm the 78°. My phone tells me 78.5°.

Would love to get the elbows on the arm rests, but I've never found extensions long enough to allow me to do that without having to grip the top of the bar end shifters in the bottom of my hand.
Of if I move the rests back on my bike my elbows and knees touch.

Bad dimensions.

I went to see the 1993 Panasonic catalogue (German edition), and in fact, the Triathlon Limited is there; the bike in the brochures picture is obviously 650c: this makes hard to tell the story behind your frame. Personally, I find early 90's 650c tri bikes more "interesting", but, on the other hand, 700c compatibility will simplify a lot building the frame (650c wheels are unicorns today)

Yes, that this the catalogue I am referring to. Actually, over the years 4 or 5 of these frames popped up on ebay or forum sites over here. They seem to be all 700c. I never saw a 650c version of this frame except the catalogue. No idea if and why they changed it from printing the catalogue to release.

Actually, 700c was the thing that made me interested in the frame since I never rode a 650c bike back then.

P.S.: And the paint scheme, of course. I think it is one of the most classy out there.

I went the opposite route: I started a 650c project because I didn't own one back then. You're right about the Panasonic Team paint scheme!

Pics from the web of the 700c bike:

Thought about this watching the ESPN Lance documentary the other day, and footage of a young LA on his Tri bike. Decent reach and highish hands.

One of the biggest, often-overlooked changes is in the saddle choices athletes are making. Even with those steep seat tubes, the rider position on those more traditional saddles usually ended up being fairly aft compared to how riders sit on an ISM or similar anatomical saddle.

So while the seat tube is similarly steep, the actual riding position is much steeper than it was in those days. Those long-low geometries of yesteryear are much more accessible with the saddle options and aerobar options we have now.

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Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Jolly and Trent, thanks for your insight. Just to get it straight in my head: the main principle of rotating around the hip applies. This means, I can build the frame up using my modern fit coordinates as a starting point.


I plan to use a Flite Titanium saddle which is a seriously old design. Sitting further aft on it would mean I need to rotate my position back a little to maintain a comfortable hip angle and adapt the cockpit accordingly.

It's not just rotating your back position - you may need to literally sit further forward on that saddle.

When you look at elite triathlete that ride more traditional saddles, they almost always ride out on the tip. So their effective position is the same as the age grouper sitting forward on an ISM, for example. You put that same age grouper on the more traditional saddle and, whether they rotate their pelvis or not, they are simple sitting in a more aft position relative to the bottom bracket. They are trying to get more of that saddle underneath them because they find it more comfortable to distribute their body weight across a larger surface area.

Fit coordinates are measurements of equipment on a bike, not of the bike itself. And that's why fit coordinates are coupled with the saddle choice used when those fit coordinates were measured. If you match your fit coordinates on the new build and use the same saddle that was used when those coordinates were measured, you are extremely likely that you'll be positioned the same.

I've had fit clients change where they sit on a specific saddle over time (usually sitting more forward then where they initially sit). I'll see them in a race or in a photo that looks nothing like how I would have set them up. Sometimes I'll take the opportunity to extend the armpad position and sometimes I'll just pull the saddle back a bit (and down, if necessary) to accommodate. It just depends on the equipment, budget, and hip angle.

Ideally, fit coordinates would be a measure of one's body position on a bike. But I don't think there's a good way to accomplish that.

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Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)