For me, neutral shoes w/ Aetrex insoles got me back on track!

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

neutral shoes for me as well.

what aetrex inserts did you get? ones for flat feet? I actually have high arches. you wear them running or just everyday use?

Had this in 2014-15, 7 months of no running and funny enough, have started to feel it coming back in the past couple weeks. No outright pain but it is giving me warning signs. Or maybe a 0.5/10 on the pain scale.

I switched from whatever neutral shoe I was in to brooks adrenaline, asics gel kayano, and now nike zoom structure. So basically, "stability" shoes. The goal was to just have a shoe that limits the medial collapse and all those do the trick. I found zoom structures the fastest because they are lighter and use better materials than brooks & asics (maybe not anymore but back in 2017 when I switched it did).

The reason it is threatening to come back is that I have been testing a shoe prototype that is completely neutral for the past month. Also because I stopped doing those strengthening exercises like pulling my foot with bands and stuff... so be sure to do your exercises, be diligent about it and don't ever stop them because 6 years later it may just come back because you decided to try a new shoe...

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

https://www.aetrex.com/speed-orthotics-l700-orthotics-L700M.html?lang=en_US


Weird, but I wear Powersteps in Ecco dress shoes daily

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

has nothing to do with your shoes. your hips lock and twist your knee ankle as you run, fix that. start with some up hill treadmill running will start building a better habit and stop the issue of pulling on your tendon.

good luck, everyone has different runners and the same injury, it isn't your runners.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

cool, thanks for the advice.

I wasn't really blaming my shoes but looking for a pair that helps mitigate the discomfort when running.

in therapy now. pt has me doing all sorts of strength stuff and using graston technique. i have not started running again yet but will be soon and slowly entering that discipline. i'll ask him about your suggestion for sure.

If your physio is using graston. They are very likely to not no what to do and would rather you keep paying them for x time rather then fix it with simple exercises and run abilities. Good luck. How does rubbing your muscle fix the lack of run skill and pelvic control and balance required to never have the injury in the first place.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

likely multiple pathways to wind up with this injury and certainly also multiple pathways to heal it as well.

also likely that each injurious pathway has its own ideal healing pathway.

i'd love to read any research/literature that you have on your suggestions.

serious, not snarky. i'm open to all background, information, suggestions, alternatives to traditional treatments, etc. that expands my knowledge and hopefully helps me improve and/or heal.

Have you tried just very good insoles? A good base for the foot is everything.

For years I use Bauerfeind Weightflex 2. I'm very bad overpronator, with very high arch, I couldn't manage the pain on the inside part of the ankles, then I found Weightflex, mk 1 then (stil use them in my garage shoes). I can put them in every shoe (usually I have to buy one size bigger one). Very good support. The best that I had encountered ever.

My advice: As I was explained by a physiotherapist good insoles "hurts" at the beginning, because they are molding the foot to correct position. For first weeks it could be difficult to wear them all day, but no problem - wear them few hours at the morning, few at the evening etc. The change will come.

https://www.bauerfeind-group.com/...rgopad-weightflex-2/

Edit: Weightflex has 3 levels of support (which translates to big plastic, elastic blue X X X on the on the back side of insole) and two widths: normal and wide, so you can pick what level of support below arch you need. Because they "X" are really blended into insole the feeling of a big bulge below the arch is limited.

Edit: Thanks that Weightflex are really thin I manage put them below stock insole of the shoe (that's why one size bigger shoe for my high arch is needed) and so do not loose the amortization from the stock insole.

I was using 10 years ago also first edition of the sport orthoses of Bauerfeind but I found them sturdy and because they were thick I had to were them instead of the stock insole. So when shortly after Weightflex came, that was like revelation for me. But now I see that Bauerfeind produces tailor-made orthoses for every sport, so the new generation came, but I didn´t try them. I´m sticking with Weightflex.

actually there is only one pathway to a tendon issue , the locked muscle under load that is preventing the muscle from proper use that leads to the tendon taking on the lengthen responsible which it is not designed for.

I muscle has lengthening abilities a tendon is like a tight spring, and you are trying to length the spring that is not how springs work. SO it yells at you to stop, once you change the one pathway it will stop. THAT is the only pathway, treatments with not fix that just better form and skill. That is a learned behaviour like swimming.

Just in swimming you go slower in running you get hurt, much higher force load.

You will have to go find what studies you want. the problem with studies is you can make anything prove something if you add an exercise component in it ( grastons, wave, massage, acupuncture ) or make it seem competitive with a retest as humans like to improve even through more discomfort.

There are not enough trainers that know or take the TIME to teach and fix. ( treating quick and so you come back is so much more profitably) You will need to find one in your area.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

I got PTT from ramping up mileage too quickly and probably years of overuse as an overpronator. Switched from a plethora of shoes to just using my Brooks Adrenalines. Also bought some custom orthotics from upstep to put in my everyday shoes. The problem was fixed in a few months and I decreased mileage from 40-50 mpw to about 25-30 mpw.

I highly recommend the upstep insoles. They were cheap (for custom) and every step you take makes the PTT worse. I'll take 5-10k steps a day on a non running day, and that's all doing damage with bad shoes.

I’m not really clear on your background or knowledge base, but you are misrepresenting anatomy and physiology. Tendons are not springs, they are part of the contractile unit. Tendons under load respond to this load and increase size based upon the stress it incurs. The OP injury can be based on many things, local dysfunction is the first place to look. Your implication of pelvic instability may be a component, but truly ignores the capability of all the structures from the ankle to the hip to absorb and ameliorate stress. You’ll have a tough time proving hip dysfunction causing ankle problems in the absence of other ankle-foot dysfunction and knee dysfunction.

A tendon is a reflex just like a spring. IT loads and releases, it has no other force function.

Sure it holds the muscle to the bone. But why do we look at the reflex tissue and not he controllable tissue. As the cause of the injury

Second your hips hold wt position over your foot move you hips around see how your feet and pressure response. The top controls the bottom. Not the other way around. These are reflexes not ideas and thinking. The body reacts in under .1 sec to a movement you cant think, you teach movement rythm and reaction.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Once again, your belief is wrong. A tendon is not a spring. The reasons tendons are injured more often than muscles is due to its limited blood supply and therefore healing ability.

Secondly, I don’t understand your example of why the hips cause ankle pain. However, you once again make incorrect assertions. Motor control and neuromuscular adaptations are absolutely trainable. It is wrong to believe that only the hips cause ankle pain. You’ve dismissed every single lower extremity structure over a 3 foot span as an ability to absorb stress. Do you have stilts for legs?

I can't help change your mind so what ever good luck with that. BLOOD FLOW!!! hahahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-dD0N53QRg

See its a reflex not a control. TENDONS ARE A MESSAGNER NOT A CAUSE.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEuQWC5hWE0


is that dude looking at the top or the bottom to maintain balance???


stress from above increase stress below.


Go walk out on a branch and watch the tree bend.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

This is not an absolute, as you make it sound. My issue was caused by shoes, as my ankle collapses inwards, the PTT rubbed against the protruding bone and became inflamed. That is what I was told and shown by a very good podiatrist in NYC. Before that injury and multiple times since, I have had run form analysis which showed no issues with my hips or knees. Since that injury, wearing the right shoes, I have ramped up mileage to 50 miles/week over the last 3 seasons. In all that time, I used 3 different brands but all with good medial support. 4 runs wearing neutral shoes in two weeks and I am getting issues. Perhaps what you are saying is the more likely case rather than it being shoes, I can accept that, but it not an absolute.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Like you, I had a mild case, e.g. pain, but no fallen arch. I didn't change shoes, but started using Superfeet green insoles in my running shoes and biking shoes. That was about 15 years ago, and I never had PTT issues again.

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Mike Sparks


I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Not weird. The foot need a proper support and correction fo all day long to function properly.

Aetrex are too soft, gives to little support, in my opinion, just foam, no structure. I tried one for 5 minutes and felt that my ankles are prone to twist inside once again. So I stayed with Weightflex.

However, your arch did not fall, was obviously lacking support, I think. Whole body mechanics starts with a proper functioning feet. If not, then knee compensate, then hip compensate, and here we go :/

It's probably not the shoes and in my experience with inserts (I've tried like 5 brands as well a a couple custom made othotics), they don't do anything except lighten your wallet. Fix the underlying issue, mine required surgery after years of discomfort and myself being stubborn and not taking enough rest.

Do you wear stability shoes instead of neutral?

I know there's a lot more that goes into this than just the shoes, but thats essentially what I was originally asking about. If stability shoes are better than neutral for this particular issue.

Follow up questions based on responses thus far for me are:

some type of orthotic in the neutral or stability shoe?

and/or

just an orthotic in my everyday shoes

is it my feet/high arches and pronated running form causing this issue in my running gait or something up higher making its way down....

Thanks to all for your input on this.

Yep, look up at my first response for the shoes I have worn over the years. Still definitely recommend getting in depth running form as I have because fixin other things can help and as I implied, using the right shoes is not the absolute answer either. I am willing to bet that triathletetoth's theory is the more common case, rather than it being just about shoes but there are absolutely many cases where it is.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Apologies for answering not been asked ;) but ... the foot needs a proper support and correction all the time - so, running shoes, everyday shoes, home flip-flops (like Hoka Recovery Slide - excellent arch support and amortization, for a flip-flop) etc.

Why putting a stress over a tendon if stress isn´t necessary? Leave the stress for a tendon for special occasions eg. running :) it will be stressed anyway, even with orthotic insoles inside a shoe.

Edit:
I´m convinced, and my physio is sure, that all my ankle problems started, as years and age go by, because of my high arches lacking proper support. Thank´s to the proper insoles I don´t have problem with inner side of ankles for years, now, only Achilles :/

Weightflex are changing the foot support inside a shoe considerably, my feet felt more stable & comfort in a neutral shoe with Weightlex, then in a stability shoe without insole.