Well said.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

I would be fairly comfortable betting that the average group ride carries far more risk than riding alone with one earbud in (non-traffic side). Riding with both ears in is stupid, I can't even handle the stimulus of that-I get overwhelmed by it. You can always pick out these people when you pass them on the bike path and they flinch.

But in over 200 000km or so mostly with an ear bud in I can say Ive never missed an approaching car or any safety concern due to reduced hearing. Lots of crashes in racing of course and always an incident or two a year for somebody on the local group ride. Maybe my hearing will get worse one day and I will need to ditch the ear bud but we will see.

To the OP's question. That seems like an indoors only proposition. How could you even enjoy yourself or be productive in any way riding outside and trying to listen to that? I like my Jaybird Tarah Pros for all my listening and calls.

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Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

I’d agree. You’d have to be out of your mind to take conference calls while riding outdoors. That’s just madness.

Timely thread...drove behind a teenager today for about 30 seconds - he was riding down the middle of the road wearing airpods. He nearly jumped out of his skin when he realised i was behind him.

I thought we are done with gaslighting?
Is that now so engrained in people that they can’t help it in every area of life to invalidate someone else’s opinion or even laws?

I do not understand how reasonably and respectfully disagreeing with someone can be perceived as gaslighting but in any case, I don't think this will lead to a productive discussion.

What I will say, as I mentioned previously, is that context is definitely relevant here. There is probably a consensus that riding whilst on a conference call with traffic / pedestrians nearby is not smart whatever the law says. But for all we know the OP is referring to a quiet cycle path in the Austrian mountains.

I stand by my point - I don't think the OP's question should be off limits and I don't think the responses stating that it should be off limits are reasonable or logical.

I am also interested in the answer as I need some new headphones for indoor cycling.

Lots of headsets work fine for the trainer/fan. For outdoors, there are some "smart" helmets that have integrated/wind-shielded mics. Outdoor is harder to noise cancel because the wind noise isn't constant (like a fan).

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...ni-smart-helmet.html

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...t-helmet-review.html

https://www.sena.com/product/r1

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

If you are the only person allowed to cycle that path, fine by me. If I am also riding that path I don't want to crash because you were focusing your attention on the sales pipeline and not on the bike path.

Besides it would be ilegal in three US States, and most EU member states.

Since I don’t live in those three US states, or I one of the EU member states, what are you expecting me to do that is going to make you crash? I’d suggest that it may be your riding, and not mine that is suspect. Either that or you’re being way over-dramatic about this.

I’m also assuming that you have never used a hands free kit to speak on a phone whilst driving......?

I don't think that word means what you think it means. He makes a valid counter argument and compares the level of risk of the activity in question to the level of risk of an activity most of us partake in as cyclists. Opinions are made to be challenged in this way. Even questioning the validity of a law, especially in a specific context (one earbud, low volume, low traffic etc), is not gaslighting. Rather it is a crucial part of societal discourse.

But by all means keep throwing around buzz words like gaslighting to end arguments, we need more of that.

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Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

Wrong logic. You are implying that because it's not forbidden where your live, it is therefore not dangerous. It's only dangerous where it's forbidden, as if different physical and cognitive laws applied.

And I've had a hands free installed in my car since I've had a mobile, actually a Nokia 3110 back in 1996.

Kinda like this?



If I were to run in the middle of the work-day [which is rare but happens; Summertime, mostly] I would not answer my phone unless it was a call from family that may be an emergency - anything else can wait

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I had an interesting encounter doing sport yesterday. The sport was XC skiing on a bike path groomed in the winter for skis, fat bikes and snow shoers. Also note that these are trails managed by my XC ski club. In any case the etiquette in XC skiing where we live is the fastest skiers have the right of way. If a faster skier comes up on a slower one, the faster one is supposed to say "Track" loud enough for the slower one in front to move to the right and give space. You can also be nice with "heads up, I am coming by". But most skiers know tthe general etiquette. Yesterday I was coming down a hill at twice the speed of a slower skier with a hard right turn at the bottom. Before anyone jumps on me who does not understand the activity, because skis don't have brakes, faster skiers cannot suddenly slow down for slower once when the trail is technical and you suddenly have someone infront, which is why this etiquette exists. It is easier for everyone to make room for the pass than a multi person pile up.

Well, I gave the audible, then the next, then the next. Finally I passed before the turn at the bottom (I was in control and safe), but the guy never gave me any room and did not even know I was on the trail. He had his earphones in and was surprised when I went by. If his audio was lower, he likely would have heard me and not been startled.

This was a secluded path with two skiers, no cars, nothing else, but an example of how unaware we can become. The worst case (low likelihood) is putting head into a tree at high enough speed at bottom of hill, not getting run over by a car, but still.

One more thing I would add as an employer. I am already nervous when employees are distracted and taking calls in cars, but no way I would not allow an employee to take a call on the bike. I would tell them to finish their ride and skip the meeting or join the meeting and skip the ride. They are big boys and can choose which one, but not both with the associated impairment in each activity. They can work out whenever they want during the day managing their schedules. If they want to take a 5 hrs ride from 10 am to 3 pm and then work from 9 pm to midnight once families are asleep to get their job done that's their choice, just produce your output that is expected but don't put anyone at risk while pretending to work.

That's basically the skiing version of a story I have told on here a couple of times. I called out 'passing' to a guy who would have been doing ~20kph on a flat road when riding to work a while back, and he drifted out & nearly put me into traffic. He didn't hear me because he had headphones in.

   
i don't know why i'm sticking with this total wreck of a thread but here i am.

i spend hours and hours xc skiing while chatting on the phone with friends. one earbud in, volume is modest. i often do the same while doing easy riding on paths or closed loops. if you track me, i'm gonna hear you and yield, and the people i'm talking to are used to hearing the odd "on your left" and "thanks" from me.

i'm sure this is true of most of the people in this thread. we're not blasting shit obliviously. those people are probably not on ST.

what is with the reactions here? there's no way it's taking more of my attention than listening to a podcast in one ear, or talking to a person i'm riding with. i'm pretty safety-obsessed as a cyclist, and i think i could argue that this is actually safer then when i ride with a real person chatting with them. there's less tendency to squeeze around stuff to stay close to finish a thought, turn head to hear or repeat something etc etc. and don't even get me started with the people i see laser-focused on their garmins to maintain some stupid wattage or speed average as though it would totally destroy the physiological stimulus of their workout to slow down for a split second to considerately deal with a hazard or another rider.

i am just baffled by the way this thread has gone. i'd like to reduce the wind sounds that i transmit with my microphone, and i thought this thread would be helpful. i'm legit surprised by the way it has gone.

to the OP, i've thought about the suggestions in this thread and read a bunch of stuff and landed on just adding a small furry lavalier cover over the inline mic on wired earbuds. it seems all the wireless stuff is optimized to be good for the person wearing them, not the person you are talking to.

I think that the discussion was more about conference call than casual chating on the phone!
A work conf call requires attention and focus, if not you can skip that meeting!
As a person I don’t want to impose this on other but I dond’t even answer the phone when I ride, I call the person on the next break.
But for work, I wouldn’t allow anybody to be on call while riding or driving.
I don’t want to be discussing the circumstances of an a cident after the fact!
As I memtioned earlier, chating with a passenger is safer because the passenger is aware of the same road conditions than you, while if your boss is asking over the phone your latest budget figures he/she is not aware if you are in difficult or easy driving conditions.

I think as we are operating in text, there are shades of grey in this discussion and there will be different value sets that each of us have coloured by where we live and risks that are higher or lower where we are and risk-reward. I personally find communicating with anyone over electronic interfaces changes my attention level for what is around me. For me a good example is sitting in a conference room with some people remote and some people in the room. This type of meeting takes way more focus and energy than a meeting where there is no electronic interface and everyone is in the room. Likewise sitting in my car and talking to a friend in the passenger seat takes way less focus away from the road than taking to someone over hands free.

I attribute this to some background processing of the brain that is trying to visualize what is going on, on the other side of the electronic medium. I am trying to visual the other person's body language without seeing it, I am trying to infer their emotions from voice tone or silence. I have zero visual cues from the in person experience and since as a human I am evolved for in person experiences from the time I am a baby versus a learned mechanism through electronic medium, any call while in motion over a phone takes ME more processing power than talking with a passenger or talking with another rider near me on the road (or another skier).

That's just my personal assessment on how these environments affect me. The entire pandemic is simply a further confirmation of how much background processing electronic media based communication burns up vs. in person communication. It is much more easy to get Zoom fatigue versus "in person meeting fatigue"...if not the world would not be talking about Zoom fatigue.

So coming back to biking in traffic on a conf call, I would not personally do it. Cycling has enough challenges in terms of safety, but everyone has to asses their risk-reward. My other angle is exercise is my time away from the internet, from electronics, from my professional life.

I don't think this thread is a train wreck. There are just a spectrum of values here. I agree there are other things that we do that is risky like chasing wattage on a garmin on the rivet chasing KOMs when it may be risky.

I remember riding down Alpe D'Huez with a friend and passing cars and vans. He was absolutely racing the downhill and had both a downhill ski racing and downhill mountain bike racing pedigree. In any case, with 4-5 switchbacks left, I bailed as it was getting out of hand. At the bottom I found out he hit top 20 strava decents all time (this was in 2015). I did not even know this was going on, but by the time I made it down into town, he had already uploaded the segment and proclaimed he was top 20 and could have been top 10 if we had not gotten stuck behind a van in the top quarter of the mountain. He personally felt 100% safe (given his background in other sports). I am an excellentt downhill rider on technical switchbacks, but I felt there were more important things in life. I felt in control of myself, but not in control of what traffic does, so I backed it off. So I do share that there is a spectrum of risk reward. My friend's only regret was getting stuck behind a van. My regret was that I got sucked racing a van which, all things considered we did in control, but it takes almost nothing for that to be a catastrophe. By the time we got stuck behind others near the bottom of the mountain, I just backed it off and followed them to the bottom. I would say 99.5% of ST posters would have bailed very early on the mountain on this descent because it would be way outside their comfort zone, so sharing this example just to discuss comfort zones of what we are all willing to or not willing to do on the bike.

Serious question......have there been any studies which prove riding with earbuds is more dangerous than without?

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Fight............Finish

Yes, this thread is a great example of giving the OP lots of unsolicited advice. I couldn’t help but think, wait, you are riding your bike on company-paid time?? But, he didn’t ask for my thoughts on the propriety of such conduct. I don’t ride with earbuds in so I’m not capable of giving him any requested advice. So, I didn’t. Thanks for trying to get this back on track.

I found this survey of the limited research. The main individual study seems to be this one.

It seems to suggest that wearing two in-ear buds is bad for auditory perception and attention. But found no measurable difference in performance when using one. "However, when listening with only one standard earbud performance was not affected." (though not having read the full text, I don't know if that quote applies to all the different conditions vs. two-ear or not)

Why the hell can't people on here just answer the question (if they have an answer) rather than using this as an opportunity to push their position on the use of earbuds while cycling on others? We don't need to hear your "moral" positions.

To answer the question....

- I tried Mifo 07's and they are pretty good IF you can get the earbud tip fitting your ear well - I couldn't and it would slip out.
- I tried the Bose QC Earbuds...fantastic earbuds and likely the best sound quality, unfortunately for biking the wind is a problem.
- I am now in the process of testing the Apple Airpod Pros. I have heard good things. I think those might be best because the airpods don't stick out from the ear to catch wind. I read they can bounce out of the ear, so I ordered a $12 ear hook attachment ( shorturl.at/opwG9 ) from Amazon which should take care of that. The added benefit is you can easily turn on "transparent" mode so you can here the ambient noises around.

Other tip: I have the Garmin Varia Cycling Radar and it is very accurate and consistently notifies me of vehicles coming up behind me - even notifies when the vehicle is traveling at high speed. I strongly recommend this for all cyclists. It replaces your rear light. It is better for the less busy roads because you naturally know many vehicles are passing you on busier roads.

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Adrian in Vancouver

I'd say open road without other riders, it's fair game if they own the Garmin Varia. The Varia will let you know what's behind you and you can see what's in front of you. I'd say if you're going to ride a MUP at a super slow pace and not listen to people calling to pass, that'd be an issue. But doubt that.

We don't know where or how they're riding. It isn't my favorite idea for a person to do. But they might be doing hill repeats on a hill in their neighborhood with no traffic for all we know.

I just hope they aren't taking a con-call while doing an alley cat race in Mexico City at rush hour.

I only play devil's advocate here as what is a deaf cyclist to do? Not ride? The loss of attention here is audio, not visual. They're not looking at a screen like a car driver.

I don't care for it, I don't even listen to music riding versus running. But.......I don't see where unless it's a really challenging place to ride the bike what the problem is.

Not to mention how many idiots stare at their power meter doing outdoors workouts instead of taking a glance once in a while.

So.......I won't place excess judgment in this scenario.

I have a hill by my house I do repeats on. Almost zero cars. Zero joggers or walkers. Going a grand 12mph up, and you could willingly go slower down on the brakes if you wish. You could do that there no problem with a con-call going on.