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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [trirocket] [ In reply to ]
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I see nothing wrong with reaching out to a wide variety of people with varying expertise in medical fields and brainstorming. I would say time to find a new PT. Seeing the same person for 3-4 months with no change tells me you need a new set of eyes, kinda like coming on here. I would look into a PT with specialized training in spine care. A McKenzie trained PT specifically, though this is my bias.
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [trirocket] [ In reply to ]
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trirocket wrote:
It all started about 10 months ago when doing intense intervals on the trainer. It felt like I pulled a muscle in my upper thigh. A few months later, I pulled my back out during a stress test on the treadmill. That's when everything went downhill quickly.....
The most pain is in my buttocks, the area below the butt (upper hamstring) and the side of the hip making sitting almost impossible - the back not so much. My hip area feels as if it's just in a shell, not being stable - as if something is missing. As my right leg is so much weaker than the left, I did a single leg extension test on my own - the right leg can only press about 1/3 of the left. Sometimes the leg also feels heavy.
I did 4 months of PT without any improvement and also saw a chiropractor a few times. After that I sought the advice of two surgeons and had MRIs done of both the back and hip. Consequently, I had a cortisone shot on the side of the hip for hip bursitis and in the glutes - no relief. Shortly after, I had an injection (no cortisone) into my hip to see if that would temporarily decrease the pain for 6-8 hours as the MRI revealed a frayed labrum - no relief. The hip doc says that my left hip might look the same due to all the tri-related activities and that the pain is probably coming from the back. Several weeks later I had a cortisone shot in the SI joint - no relief either. Interestingly enough, all the shots I received increased the pain in my buttocks, the area below the butt and the side of the hip.
I'm at the end of my rope!
Back doc wants me to get an EMG and a nerve conduction study done. Hip doc wants me to see a pain management doc - even without a diagnosis. Does anyone have any suggestion where the actual source of the pain is so I can get it treated accordingly and finally make improvements? I feel like everyone is just shooting darts at me in hopes one of them will stick. :(

Here is more info if needed....
Results of the arthrogram MRI of the hip:
- no stress reaction, fracture or AVN involving right hip, mild degenerative changes within right hip
- blunting and tearing of anterior labrum
- mild cartilage thinning within superolateral margin of joint space
- small area of benign-appearing fibrocystic change within right femoral head neck junction
- prominence of femoral head neck junction can predispose to cam type impingement
- mild degenerative spurring with reactive edema signal at public symphysis
- mild degenerative changes with reactive endplate edema within lumbar spine
- no acute musculotendinous injury, proximal hamstring tendinosis
- no significant tendinopathy or tear in greater trochanteric attachments of gluteus medius and minimus tendons
- no significant iliopsoas or greater trochanteric bursitis
- small amount of free fluid within low pelvis

Results of the back MRI:
- L2-3 and L3-4 - severe disc height loss assymmetrically greater to the right at L2-3 where there is degenerative endplate edema, bulging discs at both levels with mild right L3-4 facet arthropathy and foraminal narrowing, no high-grade stenosis or neural compression
- L5-S1 - bulging disc with mild left foraminal narrowing
- L1-2 through T11-12 - disc dehydration and height loss, posterior disc bulge eccentric to the left at L1-2


You mention this but then never talk about what you did to deal with those issues. Sounds like you had 10 months on increased tense on you pelvis and back and never focused on improving that but rather quick miracles with fingers and needles. get stronger in the muscles that are locking your pelvis and back. Lengthen under load!!! good luck, sorry but over a forum thats the best help you can get.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [biker2035] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the tip about the McKenzie Method. I had not heard of that. I'll be looking into that. In case my pain isn't spine related, do they also treat hips, glutes and thighs?
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [MattyK] [ In reply to ]
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MattyK wrote:
trirocket wrote:
If you can eliminate the pain, why do you care what the "cause" is?

I use " " because I'm differentiating pain and injury. Injuries heal. Pain manifests in your brain. The cause IS what's happening in your central nervous system. (extreme example, but people with amputations often still experience phantom limb pain). Having your consciousness know what the "cause" is (from a diagnosis) can often make the pain worse. So I don't see what he's doing as passing the baton, rather he's properly addressing the issue.

My apologies that I'm probably not great at explaining this, my ex is the expert, I've only learned it second hand.

No worries. I was probably not very good in wording it either. ;) Let's assume there is a tear only surgery could fix, but instead I stretch, strengthen, bike/run.... and potentially make things even worse. I would rather want to know that I need to stop everything altogether and have the surgery instead of experimenting for another extended period of time.
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, the body needs to be strengthened continuously. Just because the pain is gone, you can't let it leave at that. Having lived in Europe for many years, I'm pretty familiar with Pilates. Thanks for the excellent recommendation.
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [Jimbotri] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you very much for your insight. I appreciate it! I definitely will move forward with the EMG/NCS, even though I'm dreading it (previous bad experience after navicular foot surgery on the other leg :( ). But I don't have burning or shooting pain in the back, and also no numbness or tingling in the thigh, lower leg or foot, which is puzzling to me.
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [TriBri00] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, Brian. How can I diagnose piriformis syndrome? I have an appointment with a pain management doc in 2 weeks. Is there anything else I could do to get some relief in the meantime? Does e-stim help?
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
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The PT said, I have some osteitis pubis, but apparently normal for athletes. I also have high hamstring tendinitis. Any suggestion what could provide relief?
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting! I ran into a neighbor yesterday whose daughter has a torn glute muscle and is getting dry needling treatment for it. How many sessions/weeks did it take? Did you also do acupuncture? Any idea which one might be better?
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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I like Eastern medicine.
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [trirocket] [ In reply to ]
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It’s mostly a clinical diagnosis. Sometimes emg will be abnormal.

PT could try e stim or dry needling. But ultrasound guided injection would be the best option.

Brian
“Eat and Drink, spin the legs and you’re going to effin push (today).” A Howe
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [bt] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, it's a stretch. Just trying to get some input as my docs, PTs and chiropractor are scratches their heads.
a) Yes, I'm older. But... had a stress test and angiogram even at age 25. ;)
b) There is scoliosis. Maybe the stress test could have caused that when I blew my back out as I hadn't been aware of having it until I the MRI 2 months ago. Thoughts?
c) The back doc doesn't seem to think that the pain originates in the spine as the SI joint injection didn't provide any relief. Do you have any experience with epidural shots?
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [noodlecat77] [ In reply to ]
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Just sent you a PM.
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
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Triathletetoth wrote:
You mention this but then never talk about what you did to deal with those issues. Sounds like you had 10 months on increased tense on you pelvis and back and never focused on improving that but rather quick miracles with fingers and needles. get stronger in the muscles that are locking your pelvis and back. Lengthen under load!!! good luck, sorry but over a forum thats the best help you can get.

Thanks for your input. At first I obviously laid low for a bit - RICE. After the lockdown ended, I did lots of stretching and strengthening for several months. Oddly, it didn't seem I gained any strength. Which eccentric movements would you suggest? I'm definitely not looking for a quick fix, but a long-term solution that will get me strong and prevents me from going down that path again. Meds and needles are not my friend. I was just following doctors' orders.
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [TriBri00] [ In reply to ]
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TriBri00 wrote:
It’s mostly a clinical diagnosis. Sometimes emg will be abnormal.

PT could try e stim or dry needling. But ultrasound guided injection would be the best option.

Got you. Thanks. Can the PT do the piriformis syndrome in the meantime?
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [trirocket] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. They can show you some stretches. Etc

Brian
“Eat and Drink, spin the legs and you’re going to effin push (today).” A Howe
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [TriBri00] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. I meant to say if the PT can also do the diagnosis of the piriformis syndrome test. I would think so.
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [trirocket] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't got a message in my inbox..?? can you resend?
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [trirocket] [ In reply to ]
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OK, my 2c worth. I'll keep an eye out for your PM, but in the meantime. (disclaimer - treating these symptoms and such things is what I do for a living). The symptoms you are describing fit sacroiliac joint dysfunction. It sounds like it's shifted a bit (yes, it moves) and probably in the "upslip" direction from the mechanism of injury you're describing but there may also be an element of sacral torsion in there (probably forward on the affected side). I deal with this regularly as and have had issues myself after rupturing my SIJ years ago (think dumb stuff in a half pipe on a snowboard) so it's become my area of clinical focus. Depending on where you are located (tell me when you PM me), I will point you in the right direction for assessment of this as it's a different skill set for therapists depending on where you are globally. When the SIJ is not correctly aligned (and it doesn't take much) then the neural supply to trigger your gluteus medius muscle is essentially switched off. Your Transverse Ab on that side will also not fire properly, so no amount of strengthening exercise can make them work until the power is plugged back in. When the SIJ isn't correctly lined up the leg kind of feels like it's not yours, it doesn't behave properly and can give you pain in the hamstring and adductor insertion (usually tendinopathies because they are trying to provide the stability the glutes are not and they are overworking +++ therefore become inflamed), over the SIJ, into the lower back and cramping sensations down the leg, even to the calf. You can get anterior impingement at the hip joint and that can cause labral tears as well. Piriformis is probably tight too because half of it's fibres confer stability to the SIJ when you load the leg and that's trying to do the whole job of glutes that aren't working too. TFL works too hard and so when you stand on that leg you rotate onto it rather than just transfer weight onto it. It's a mess, but it's a fixable mess with some simple techniques and THEN some very specific glutes retraining that focusses on the glute med working whilst down training the TFL. Hope to hear from you soon if you think this is barking up the right tree. :)
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [noodlecat77] [ In reply to ]
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just to note that Noodlecat's observations on SI subluxation are spot on as regards my own gait issues (a problem undetected by 10 consultants, 3 surgeries, 3 different physio programs, nerve conduction studies, MS evaluations, and on and on).

My SI was slipped for years, and I (unknowingly) continued to train hard on it while compensated, which caused its own set of problems from big toe to scapula on the affected side -- the firing patterns realigned in a spiral away from the instability.

Mat pilates has been the answer for me.
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [kiki] [ In reply to ]
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Wow!!! I feel for you! It's like being in a hamster wheel..... So, how was your SI subluxation discovered? And where did you go from there?
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [trirocket] [ In reply to ]
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If you're dealing with piriformis syndrome, what I finally found to help the most was several minutes of walking sideways back and forth on each side on a treadmill (hanging onto the rails) for a cooldown session from my outdoor runs. I battled pain from that for a long time (close to a year maybe?), had some limited success from PT, and had it clear up very quickly when I started the sideways walking. Good luck.
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Re: Going in circles and I'm sick of it - Desperately seeking diagnosis and cure for massive ongoing pain in glutes/thigh/hip/back area [trirocket] [ In reply to ]
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My bit, probably worth what you're paying for it.

I had 2 chronic problems, both were improved(I wouldn't say cured).

The stretches and exercises prescribed by the physio covered much more than just the muscle injured. I think the more balanced musculature helped.
A lot of pain is caused when one muscle fails and another, less appropriate muscle, has to pick up the slack.

Good Luck, don't give up!
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