I would do it if?

1. It was gravel
2. No Aero bars
3. Even out the distances. If it starts and finishes with a 20K bike, there is an equal 20K Run.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

Tri aerobars wouldn't be Allowed , so no problem with packs

We used to have one in Austin called Bizarro Du.

As I'm much stronger in the bike, it was my only top 10 finish in an event (and yes, it had more than 10 participants 😃)

Our local Du sent people off by gender and AG. The groups were so small if you sent them off on bikes instead of on foot you'd confuse it for a group ride..

Also, given the normal "delay" between sending each AG set out on the normal run.........why not stagger the AG start like a Time Trial? Even 30 seconds would be sufficient.

Look, even I don't think this is a good idea. All I want is duathlon to not cater to runners so much and at least make the ratio the same as triathlon: 4.3:1. This whole 3.0:1 crap is a gimme to runners.

If it's two 5k's for the run, the bike should be 43k. Not 30k. That's bullshit.

FWIW, the du I did the winners all ran 16:30 or so 5k's..........but couldn't hardly hit 20mph on the bike leg. But given it was only 30km......a whole 5mph speed differential on the bike only got you 8min or so advantage. Them running just 1min/mi faster than somebody nets them 6.2 minutes.

My conclusion was......sign up for duathlons just to get an "official" TT bike time slip for some distance.

Or I'll do relay in the future.

The problem with non-aerobars is this cuts out "triathletes" more often times than not. And your base customer has to be from the triathlete/multi sport realm. Sure you can pull from runners and bikers (who will have a road bike), but to tell the core of your customer "your bike wont work", just wont let it grow.

Unless you just say the hell with the safety rules and allow drafting with any bike choice. I don't actually think you'd see all that much "carnage" in an race with no rules and ppl with aerobars....I think the perception is bad, the reality isn't going to be 98 amublance rides. I just think it is generally "unsafe" practice, but I dont think it would actually lead to massive carnage, or else we'd see 100+ crashes every IM with all the draft packs that occur. I think it's more of a perception and "bad practice" (likely agains the insurance policy) to draft close quarters with strangers on aerobars, but I dont think it would be "mass carnage". I just think it's not a best practice scenario.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

The finish wouldn't be a bike sprint. It would be a "run" sprint finish after racking your bike. That's standard practice in the multisport world for all "non run" last leg events. IE- any event that finishes with a swim or bike as last leg almost always actually has a short run sprint finish to actually cross the finish line.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Then why even bother with the Le Mans start?

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

I like the idea because it atleast is thinking and can attempt to get another group of endurance athletes in the race (bikers). You create an real "advantage" for them and maybe just maybe larger numbers come out. The issue is in the details. Having a bike course that is open the entire time of the event is costly for the RD. The permitting issue for how the bike specifics would be key as well. Even though I actually don't think you'd see that many crashes, but the risk is most certainly gone up and thus the insurance would likely be expensive.

It's atleast a conversation piece cus the current duathlon seems to be dying hard these days.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

The thing is, a draft legal race starting on the bike will make the first bike leg largely irrelevant for the frontrunners. No one will be able to get away without frying themselves, unless they're so strong that they'll easily win regardless. Start on foot with at least 2 or 3km and you get good separation starting the bike leg and the bike leg is actually important.

I actually think it would be the opposite athlete attracted and could attract more bikers who actually bike than the “bike noob”. I also think the bike noob will be popped so quickly off the back it’s really a non issue....other than the perception that it’s dangerous to do “mass start” anything. There’s a reason why even bike races are wave/race limited in numbers.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Think about it, if you are telling me that every top cyclist in the event and every weak runner starts at the same time, there's no way the top cyclist won't take advantage of the weaker cyclist...even if they sit on the wheel. It will most certainly affect the top runner's run ability again even if they are able to "sit in". Then they have to do it all over again after running, it kinda defies logic to not assume that the cyclist would have an advantage in a B/R/B format, regardless of if it's DL or not. And I contend that a group of 8 cat 3 riders is going to put the runner who's likely at best a cat 5 cyclist, in the hurt locker very easily.

ETA: Which is why I actually think it's worth investigating cus it atleast is different enough format you could actually *market* this to a cyclist and show them with real evidence "this is a cycling heavy event". The current duathlon format is dying, if they can actually figure out the details I dont think it would be bad that of an option. I do think the issue with paying for an race course all day is an big issue to overcome for the local RD. You almost gotta find cost cutting ways not adding costs unless you can overcome it with massive participant numbers but I dont think that would be the case.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I actually kinda love your proposal. It’s really three sports. Crit racing, running, then probably small group TTTing.

Another variant I would love to see: ‘Emo’ Think of skimo, but instead of skinning up and alpine ski down, it’s a trail run up, then enduro/DH decent! Think of the crash footage of half split wearing runners stacking it up in a rock garden!!

The only upside I can see to finishing on the bike would be the opportunity to wheelie across the Finish Line



Otherwise, forget it

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Ever since I did my first triathlon and then "biathlon" in 1983, I've always thought the R-B-R format was a triathlon "substitute" knock off, trying to cash in on the triathlon craze... and now 38 years later, I still believe that, and think it doomed the sport from the beginning. Now called a duathlon, it's two sports not three. I would like the sport to separate itself from trying to be a 3 event triathlon wannabe. It's a du, so have two events. Run, and then Bike to the finish. Why complicate it with another transition? And I've always thought it would be great to bust out the bike to the finish. I'd go with what seems to be today's most popular distances, of half marathon/100K as the main event. Throw all the shorter stuff in there to entice newbs. Our local tri crowd is very small, and local events are lucky to draw 100 people. Our local running crowd is huge, and following strava, a very large percentage cross train on bike. Our local bike crowd is also huge, and our most popular events are 100K "metric centuries", and having participated in them, they are full of running crowd people. I think combining both, in a very SIMPLE, basic, non threatening event, would go over well, and I'm betting would draw more folks than our local triathlons. Also think about the fitness boom that is very possible, post covid. Nobody is swimming with closed pools, but folks are out cycling and running like crazy. Done right and properly marketed, duathlon, or RunBike, or some other catchy name, the sport might be facing a second chance to get it right, in the next year, and going forward.

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Athlinks / Strava

I’ve done a few with bike finish in upstate NY

Not a disaster at all

There is a line quite a ways from the finish. Have to come to a near stop and slowly make your way to the finish line

Most people finishing together are not in the same age group so it’s irrelevant anyways

I don’t understand. Why is that irrelevant? Do you let racers outside your age group pass you at the finish? I would never think to look at someone’s leg in the final
1/4 mile of a race to determine whether they are in my AG. A race is a race. I don’t care what your age is.

the area I plan to use is standard one car lane road, and this would prevent crowding at the start, to be covid safe.

as for those mentioning insurance. this is at your own risk event. island will be open to cars, which go in a one way direction, so you can draft off them too (but at the same time sometime they block riders). Regardless, being one direction traffic, its safer.

I’m more lost at what the process is.

So you hit the first line and have to “slow down” and soft pedal to the 2nd finish line? This is why I suggested a lot of events I’ve seen actually end w a run not an actual bike across finish line.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

 island will be open to cars, which go in a one way direction, so you can draft off them too (but at the same time sometime they block riders).

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Slowman and I got into a DL/ITU race discussion some years back. He was talking how he could do it out in his area with limited cars and not worry about "closing the roads". My reply...You want me to send people across the country to do a DL race that may or may not be interrupted with cars? Travel from Raleigh to Cali would cost easily ~$1k+ and your telling me it's a "free for all" safety rules.

Yeah....as I said good luck to him back then, and good luck to this event with you.


If you say "race at your own risk", you wont grow it much at all. It'll be a much more "underground" vibe, which has it's place.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Why would it attract more people?

its the same way, same location of how our sport of triathlon started

Like I said it sounds like the perfect underground setup. Fill it up w locals and see if it actually grows.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II