Instead of doing a ramp test in aero, have you considered doing something like a progression test in aero to get a result for you in aero.

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/the-physiology-of-ftp-and-new-testing-protocols/

For the above:

1: This sounds initially to me like a fit problem. While you might not make good power in aero due to the hip angle difference from a road bike, you should be comfortable enough to complete an hour workout with minimal time spent sitting up. Perhaps the initial amount of reach you have is too far or you have your stack way too low right now. If you can't even hold the position but a few minutes, I would alter those fit coordinates until you can for an hour nonstop hold the position. At any power, even just 100w. Then, once you can hold it that long......slowly lower the stack and increase the reach back to the more aggressive more aero fitment.

Do a little video or picture from the side like the forum topics you see here, we'd be glad to take a look.

2. What's the race distance and type? It may help with other suggestions.

3. If you can't hold it that long even after considering #1 gets somewhat resolved, no shame in starting with an averaged 8min test. Do an 8min test twice in the session. Take the average. Then just start off doing your intervals at even lower % than the amount you normally chop off a 20min or hour test.


The above must somewhat work.....I couldn't make power or stay down for a long time starting out. Now I can hold a TT position that resembles the Huub Wattbike stuff for a 40k without moving and have ridden that damned thing 50mi in training rides in aero (with a few stops to stretch) and I make 95% of my 20min power from road in TT. NOT a triathlon comfy fit.

I should have included that I was fitted almost a year ago and was fairly fit then. During the fitting I could have held the position for quite some time and felt comfortable. I’m not very flexible so the fitter did what he could with what he had. The only part that is really uncomfortable are my shoulders which makes me think it may just take some getting used to. I’m doing some core and overall ST to supplement.

Distances range from sprints to half IM. I did IMNC 70.3 in 2019 and averaged just under 23mph so I can put out some power (and stay fairly aero for me). I was fitted a couple months after to try to get more aero.

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Team Zoot

Flexibility has little to do with a proper fit.

You should always train like you will race - aero if you’ll be racing triathlon..

I agree 100% but if I can only maintain my aero position for 30 minutes of 60, should I just do the 30 then work out of aero for the next 30 and build up?

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Team Zoot

Can you explain? If my hamstrings are too tight, I won’t be able to bend as far forward. I also have a fairly big hump in my back and can’t get it flat.

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Team Zoot

I'd find a position you can hold for 60 and can comfortably train in. Tweak it to more aero over time if you can. If you can't hold it to ride for race distance then how well do you expect to run after?

With a proper fit, you don't have to bend forward.

You simply rotate your pelvis. This does require that you use an appropriate saddle.

Jim is very very right.... I am the perfect example of this..... cant even touch my toes (not proud of this), super tight hamstrings (prob to tight), but I rotate my hips very well and can get very low to produce a low cda.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

I can tell you what I do and works for me and ultimately you have to simply find what works for you...... I do the vast majority of my indoor rides on my road bike and do the vast majority of my outdoor rides on my TT bike. I think being in those two different positions helps my body overall rather then being in one static position for 6-12 hours a week. You do enough FTP test you will find what works for you and what does not. I will push about 10-15 more watts on a road bike then a TT bike. If I FTP test on my TT bike I am for 15 min in aero and 5 min on the base bar. This is just my 2 cents and what works for me for what its worth hope that helps some.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

I'm a roadie, but this is actually what I've arrived at even without any formal planning or intent. Same here also, I've got it within 10 to 15w now. My best road bike 20min was on a Zwift climb at 305. Outdoors was actually on the TT bike at 285 including the power lost during the u-turn of the TT. I didn't have proper nutrition prep for that ride, so I could have gotten closer even!

I have found that riding the TT bike on the road to develop those skills and hold my head and hands correctly and how to take hills and corners is an added benefit to the "butt in saddle" time of riding that position.

Also, chasing a KOM outdoors or doing a weekly "mock TT" gives you something tangible to work towards and a reason to tell yourself "stay in position!!!".

Also you can track real world performance over time to see how you're doing. Indoors will tell you nothing other than power. Outdoors will reveal how aero and powerful you are becoming.

You don't bend forward, you rotate.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Can you explain further? I’m not sure I understand. I get you have an anterior tilt but to me that doesnt get my arms on the pads.

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Team Zoot

Rotate your entire system. Around the BB. Don’t change any angles. Just rotate whatever is comfortable.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Imagine (just for a thought experiment), your feet were two feet behind the saddle, then it would be easy to be leaning forward and down to put your arms on the pads. So if you had a cut out cardboard 'you', you would have been rotated around the saddle, moving your feet back and up and your shoulders/arms down and forward.

Now do that to a much smaller degree in real life. That is what 'rotating' means.

So do you believe everyone has to look the same on the bike regardless of body type or comfort? I ask because you were very critical of the pic I posted when I first had it done. What if your client can’t get the “standard” angles? I find this interesting because I was a golf pro for a long time and taught thousands of lessons to all different abilities and body types.

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Team Zoot

This is actually the best bike fit advice that I have heard here for a long time now!

But leaving fitting aside - it is relatively more difficult to do intense efforts (FTP+) in aero position comparing to long distance triathlon intensities, call it 75-90% of FTP for now. Lots of TR programmes follow "reversed periodisation" and their winter training requires riding over the FTP many times. If you can do that with lower RPE or with higher wattage outside the aerobars it is ok for me. Especially in December, when your next race is long distance triathlon 6 months later. Again, it is relatively harder when you ride indoors. With the athletes I coach we do some testing outside aero position in early winter to have "winter training zones", months before specific training begins because it allows them to ride with higher wattage and better feeling, thus training is more effective if planned correctly. You probably need 4 months riding in the aerobars to make it efficient and we move towards lower wattage (zone 3 ie) and race specific position from February on, for example.

I follow the similar pattern with both PROs and AGers and it works really well. Another thing is it gives you time to improve the position and your body abilities. Best body position is always a moving target with strenght and conditioning or equipment choices as a part of the process. But generally speaking when you cannot ride 115% FTP interval in December in the aerobars it does not mean you will not be able to ride 85% FTP race-pace few months later. BTW I like doing intervals out of the bars and recovery periods in the aero position every now and then :)

Last but not least - TR is overestimating FTP on regular basis and it causes a cascade of problem. I come from a communist country and we have a saying that socialism heroicly solves the problems it had created first. Same thing here :)

Good luck, you probably will be fine!

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coaching via trinergy.pl
TP Training Plans
IG @kowalski.coach

there are no standard angles. angles are an output, not an input.

we're all different, but we're all the same kind of different.

comfort has nothing to do with how we look, it's about how we relate to the saddle, and our posture, how we hold ourselves and how we tell the bike to hold us.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”