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Re: What is stopping WTC from instituting a 20m draft zone [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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Same time interval no matter the speed. That's the whole point. It means the faster you are going the further back you have to be.

Edit, problem is 20 mph is about 9m/s so the right time for AG is somewhere around 1.33 seconds (debatable). I can imagine a little button you could buy for like $5 that you put on your extension. You press it when the guy in front of you passes something. Then 1.33 seconds later it beeps. If you've passed that thing, you're too close.

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Last edited by: RowToTri: Dec 8, 20 15:01
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Re: What is stopping WTC from instituting a 20m draft zone [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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I like the time concept (vs. distance). Time is a lot easier to measure (ex. go with 2sec.), since everyone has a watch or a head unit. It also has the advantage that it doesn't lead to issues on climbs or descents (20m, or even 12m, going up Palani is ridiculous).

I'd be a fan of 1sec. until the QueenK (to let things settle out post-swim), and 2sec. from then on.

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Re: What is stopping WTC from instituting a 20m draft zone [CementBottle] [ In reply to ]
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What is stopping WTC from instituting a 20m draft zone

Id say Ironman actually caring would be the reason.

They take months to even payout the prize money.

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it doesnt matter what you say, someone on here will pick a fight over it.
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Re: What is stopping WTC from instituting a 20m draft zone [CementBottle] [ In reply to ]
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I think 20m is too much.
It is for the pros with 10m already very difficult to overtake without blocking.
This became clear in Daytona, where overtaking was vitually impossible without blocking.

The solution in Daytona was (I am not going to furnish proof for this, but I just remember it reading through all kind of threads):
1. No consequent penaltying for blocking.
2. The 20m distance was not helt consequently, without penalties.
3. Little overtaking attempts. I read some guy overtook a whole bunch and was cooked after that.

An IM with 20m which is consequently helt by referees is going to be extremely boring.
Last edited by: longtrousers: Dec 9, 20 0:08
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Re: What is stopping WTC from instituting a 20m draft zone [kjtri] [ In reply to ]
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kjtri wrote:
As far as the AG slotting into the Pro Woman's Race, someone, slowman maybe, proposed a moto at the back of the Pro Woman's Race.
If an AG goes past that moto, they have to use the Pro Rules, behind that Moto its AG rules.
Puts the burden on the AG'ers.

Not a bad idea but can't see it happening, so the rules changes mid way? Woman pro can overtake again and you are now not subjected to 20M rule and so on....
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Re: What is stopping WTC from instituting a 20m draft zone [kjtri] [ In reply to ]
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kjtri wrote:
As far as the AG slotting into the Pro Woman's Race, someone, slowman maybe, proposed a moto at the back of the Pro Woman's Race.
If an AG goes past that moto, they have to use the Pro Rules, behind that Moto its AG rules.
Puts the burden on the AG'ers.

Quite often, the top AG’ers catch the female pro’s in the water. So then those faster AG swimmers have to ride the whole bike with a 20m draft rule while their competition rides at 12m?

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Last edited by: stevej: Dec 9, 20 5:03
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Re: What is stopping WTC from instituting a 20m draft zone [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
kjtri wrote:
As far as the AG slotting into the Pro Woman's Race, someone, slowman maybe, proposed a moto at the back of the Pro Woman's Race.
If an AG goes past that moto, they have to use the Pro Rules, behind that Moto its AG rules.
Puts the burden on the AG'ers.


Quite often, the top AG’ers catch the female pro’s in the water. So then those faster AG swimmers have to ride the whole bike with a 20m draft rule while their completion rides at 12m?

This exactly.

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Re: What is stopping WTC from instituting a 20m draft zone [CementBottle] [ In reply to ]
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It’s also at the end of the day a business almost completely reliant on athlete registration revenue. Have rules, have fair races, and all that the best you can but at some point stricter rules are going to affect the bottom line. Marshal and enforce blatant drafting violations. Ding the pelotons, ding the individual riding three feet behind someone for five minutes, ding the person intentionally blocking. Don’t fuss around with is he 12m or 10m or 9m behind the athlete in front of them. 20m is going WAY too far, and likely mathematically impossible given athlete density on courses. I think the 12m rule went too far. I’m all for a fair race and dislike blatant drafting but the problem isn’t 12m or 10m or 7m. The problem is 4m and less. It’s the people sucking onto wheels in very close proximity. I’ve done my fair share of WTC races and never got worked up about someone riding 28’ behind someone as opposed to 36’ but I sure as hell get fired up at the assholes riding 10’ or less behind each other.

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Re: What is stopping WTC from instituting a 20m draft zone [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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All of you guys are confusing age group rules and pro rules. There are already different pro rules. Enfornce the age groupers differently (it is already a free for all of doping and drafting anyway). Pros have a different bar. 20m is totally possible. Jimmy and Andrew would be standing lying to us if they said its not physically possible. It is possible on an open road as proven in Challenge Bahrain a few years ago already.
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Re: What is stopping WTC from instituting a 20m draft zone [matthansontri] [ In reply to ]
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matthansontri wrote:
Same issue I mentioned before applies. You have AG males mixed in with the Female Pros. So that would really screw the women over if the AGers had different rules than the Pros. There would be literally nothing they could do to prevent being slotted in on.


smallhips wrote:
How about changing the draft zone distance to 20 meters at halfway. for pros only Isnt there usually a tailwind coming back

I think it's worth pointing out here, and emphasizing, that no matter what an athlete should not be drafting or following another athlete who is not in their race.

If that means sending the pros off earlier or the amateurs later, then so be it. If that means top amateurs sitting up out of respect for the pro women or riding staggered then so be it. For Hawaii in particular, create three lanes... to the right of the rumble strips = amateurs, white line left of the strips for pro women.

As someone else has said, there is ZERO barrier to entry right now for these changes, it's just a matter of political will.

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