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Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C?
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I am currently riding my first bike, a used 2012 Cervelo P3 size 51. I bought it second hand in 2018 after I fell in love with triathlons. I spent $1700 on the bike, and it came with a PM, and DA, and seemingly all I needed (didn't think I would ever consider a $5,000 bike at the time). Fast forward a few years, and I have upgraded everything on the bike, except the frame, and now have spent close to if not more than $5,000. I have eTap, new brakes, 160mm cranks, new PM, $1500 wheels, new cockpit, etc. I race mostly long course, with a 2:30ish half distance bike split avg.

In any case, I am trying to get more competitive and I am certain a new bike will do the trick (I know this isn't actually true). I have been pondering disc brakes for a while, and know that the cycling world is divided. I ride indoors 99% of the time on a kickr. I can afford a $10,000 bike, but I am also a person who is into value, and that is the reason I havent jumped on a new bike.

With all that said, can you either talk me off the ledge and let me know I DONT need a more expensive bike to get to Kona or help me decide if I should get a new bike and sell the old one, or get a new frame and swap over the upgrades.

These are my last fitting numbers. I am fine with the fit. I am told I have short legs and long torso (at 5'6" this isnt saying much). But I have very little idea what these numbers mean in terms of which bike would be best. My fitter said I am maxed out on my current bike and per this fit, could even be 5cm lower on the front (this sounds a bit much).

Saddle: PS 1.0
Nose down 4.8*
Cradle width 170mm center
Extension width 50mm center
Saddle nose to extension 815
Crank 160mm
SX: 125 (center of rails)
SY: 617 (center of rails)
HX: 443 (back of pad)
HY: 561 (top of pad)

Thanks!
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [whodatace] [ In reply to ]
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I’ll start by voting that you should just keep the P3. A new frame/bike isn’t going to be a ton faster. You could instead spend time in the wind tunnel trying different positions, helmets, etc. it would be cheaper and you would likely save more watts as well.

Matt
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [whodatace] [ In reply to ]
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Need? No. Major reason I would see if potential for wider rims/tires.
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [whodatace] [ In reply to ]
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Short legs and long torso play well to long and low bikes like the p3c. And it's still a perfectly capable bike when set up correctly, as it sounds like you've done. The unfortunate nail in the coffin for sticking with it for now, is that despite being a Cervelo, the money you'd get selling it would pennies. I still see them sold for ~$1k with a lot of upgrades but I wouldn't pay close to that for one now. Heck, I paid $550 for the bike from that video 3 years ago. Now, since you say you could afford a $10k bike, it'd be perfectly reasonable to buy a rim brake frame for well under half that and keep the p3c around as a wall ornament. Still a few rim brake frames that can compete with anything out there, I'm personally biased to the TriRig Omni (which appears to still be 15% off), but there are plenty of p5s on the used market also.

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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [whodatace] [ In reply to ]
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I went from a 2015 Cervelo P2 to a 2018 Felt IA16

The biggest change for me (other than going from 650C to 700C) was the storage on the bike.

Now I don't have a rear bag to carry my flat kit because it's in a rear storage pack which is easily accessible and fits neatly behind the seatpost.
Now I don't need a bento box to put gels in because it's built into the top tube.

These two items make the bike much cleaner.

The only thing I need now is fluid storage. I can get 1 bottle on the frame (not 2 because the frame is so small). I don't know if I should go between my arms which historically didn't work for me because of the size of the front end or behind the saddle where I've always put it. Just looking for a clean way to do it.
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [whodatace] [ In reply to ]
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Just a similar recent thread on this topic with an even older Cannondale slice. You may find it interesting:

From everything I've been told and read, the P3C is still one of the fastest frames period. Newer uber-bikes are just 1/10ths of a percent faster IRL race conditions. Which means if you sit up and stretch one time extra on an uber-bike during your 112-mile race day bike ride, you just nullified the aero gain time difference between an uber-bike and a P3C - LOL!


As the above poster mentioned though, can you fit a 23 to 25 mm rim/ tire combo on your 51 frame? Aero gains aside, I've found the wider rim/ tire combo is a much smoother, enjoyable, less jarring ride which I think can only help for the Run. You don't state what kind of wheels you have.
Last edited by: BT_DreamChaser: Dec 7, 20 18:34
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [BT_DreamChaser] [ In reply to ]
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Fwiw I found 10w between two “good” helmets at 26mph.

I doubt you’d find that much in a frameset.

I would spend time and cash buying and selling a few helmets and suits.

You’d be surprised what is possible.

I spent $250 on a skinsuit on black Friday. One originally about $450. If it gains 5w and I sell the old one for $100....still better watts per dollar than a frame.

Once you’ve exhausted that kind of stuff....frame.
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I have the giro aerohead helmet, a few nice trisuits ($300+). In my last race, the combo I used produced a pretty solid time for wattage. So improved over the previous year (aerodynamically) My tyres are 25 front 23 back. Front is real close but no rub and back is too close for 25.

I guess I was thinking wider tyres and added storage options might be something I’d want/need?

I currently use the PD FC35 BTA hydration and use an xlabs bento/rear mount for additional hydration and storage. Not ideal but best this bike can get I suppose.

I am in hawaii so no windtunnels or super bike fitters for me here.

Thanks everyone for the feedback!
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [whodatace] [ In reply to ]
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Which P3 do you have? This one?
https://i1.wp.com/...rmarked-dsc_0181.jpg

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

--
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [whodatace] [ In reply to ]
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 Not to dive to hard into the rim vs disk brake debate to hard, but if 99% of your training is indoors, is there any race remotely on your horizon that has you thinking dammit, I really need to consider disks? My first thought is that should have close to zero impact on your frame choice, but maybe something I don’t know. (That’s before even considering that you’d also have to get new race wheels. )

2012 was still the older p3c model I believe. In 51 that’s a pretty long and low frame, not a lot of newer frames will get you as low as you are now let alone lower. Have you checked your coordinates to narrow down your choices? Might be one of your best options would be tracking down an old p4 for some marginal gains.

Got a tririg omega on your p3? If not start there. I have one on mine, same size 51, works fantastic. Tidy up your cables, maybe even look into the hack to drill the top tube to really hid those cables.

All that said, if you have the means and it brings joy, hella ya get a new bike. New gear kicks ass. But like the other guy said, please don’t sell your frame for $500 on eBay. That c in p3c should stand for classic, still one of the most beautiful frames out there to my eye. Deserves a spot on the wall for sure.
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Which P3 do you have? This one?
https://i1.wp.com/...rmarked-dsc_0181.jpg

That’s the newer version P3
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [Dufflite] [ In reply to ]
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I dont really know why I want disc. I guess in my head it looks cool? Not a great reason, but its probably my biggest one. I dont race enough or know enough to be able to tell if disc is needed, and I wont be doing any crazy descents. I did Ironman Whistler as my first IM and that was probably the most climbing on the IM circuit at 8,500 ft-ish. Wont be doing it again but it was fun!

I was looking into getting a 51 speed shop cockpit or the tririg one. I currently have the 3T Vola bars, which allowed me to rest my armpads on the base bar, and put the aerobars below the base bar (to get as low as I could). Not sure if I could get lower.

I think I would be happy if I could find a way to hide those damn brake cables lol. I havent heard of that hack...sounds scary (the thought of drilling the frame!).

https://ajinthelife.com/ironman-70-3-boulder-race-report-2019/


This was my last race set up. Since then I have purchased a Knight 90 wheel set (not shown).
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [whodatace] [ In reply to ]
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Make your P3C look like this and I doubt you will be giving up very much to any modern superduper bike. I've no intention of "upgrading" mine until the day it breaks, and I struggle to make my position on bikes with modern (ie shite) geometry anyway.

Any excuse to show off my pride and joy.






Stick a bento on the top tube and you are laughing (sorry about my garage).



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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [whodatace] [ In reply to ]
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PS on the disc vs rim brakes thing, I'm not going to go there other than to add that I rode the following course (little race in Norway) with my rim brakes and had no issues at all. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been any easier or more enjoyable with disc brakes, but it was totally ok. I squeezed the levers and my bike slowed down as much as I needed it to. The final 30km was basically downhill.




Cheers, Rich.
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [whodatace] [ In reply to ]
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I looked at your bike and position and a set of the TriRig brakes would be the first change.

The position looks OK, it it is kind of the old standard for long-low setup. I think going any lower in the front would just have you lifting your head higher. I do think there is probably some good aero and comfort gains in the cockpit. My suggestion would be to do the Aerodynamic consultant with Wattshop. My hunch is that they can give you some good suggestions on whether that hand position should change and options for bars. I think that would be a good use of $200.
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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how did you get the torhans aero bento onto the top tube? i thought they were bottle boss designed? do they stick out too wide? I have a tririg too on my training bike below, but the crown is 20mm, to get a stem cable guide id have to find a new smaller crown (10mm or so to account for 10mm roughly of the guide itself). Much prefer your bare cable look and not the outer cable as well as brake spacers in front of the fork. Pic below to describe.

OP- I use the bike below and have a current gen speed concept as well. The speed concept is a bit prettier and has di2 and feels a bit more 'plush', but i dont really notice the speed difference as they are set up the same. The P3 is a hell of a lot lighter though if that matters to you in your area? Feels almost road bike like compared to the Trek.




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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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IamSpartacus wrote:
how did you get the torhans aero bento onto the top tube? i thought they were bottle boss designed? do they stick out too wide?

I toyed with getting the drill out again and fitting some rivnuts (Tririg have a tutorial on this) but in the end I stuck it on with tape. I put some clear tape on the frame and double-sided adhesive tape to attach the bento. And I can tell you, it is as solid as a rock - I could pick the bike up by the bento box. If I had any worry it is that the thing will never come off (which I'm ok with anyway).

The top tube is a little bit round so it doesn't sit perfectly flush, but it is ok for me. I cut out a bit of the front of the bento to let me push it right up to the stem and hide the cable outers that go into the frame.

IamSpartacus wrote:
I have a tririg too on my training bike below, but the crown is 20mm, to get a stem cable guide id have to find a new smaller crown (10mm or so to account for 10mm roughly of the guide itself). Much prefer your bare cable look and not the outer cable as well as brake spacers in front of the fork. Pic below to describe.

My cable outer terminates in the Tririg Sigma XF stem which has a housing stop facing downwards for a centre-pull brake caliper. From an aero perspective I think it is a bit of a wash (somebody tested this once upon a time I think). But having the Sigma XF it made sense for me to run bare cable and I like the way it looks.

Cheers,
Rich.
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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I’ve used Velcro type tape (strong interlocking variety) and had very good luck although my top tube was flat on top.
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [whodatace] [ In reply to ]
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whodatace wrote:
I am currently riding my first bike, a used 2012 Cervelo P3 size 51. I bought it second hand in 2018 after I fell in love with triathlons. I spent $1700 on the bike, and it came with a PM, and DA, and seemingly all I needed (didn't think I would ever consider a $5,000 bike at the time). Fast forward a few years, and I have upgraded everything on the bike, except the frame, and now have spent close to if not more than $5,000. I have eTap, new brakes, 160mm cranks, new PM, $1500 wheels, new cockpit, etc. I race mostly long course, with a 2:30ish half distance bike split avg.

In any case, I am trying to get more competitive and I am certain a new bike will do the trick (I know this isn't actually true). I have been pondering disc brakes for a while, and know that the cycling world is divided. I ride indoors 99% of the time on a kickr. I can afford a $10,000 bike, but I am also a person who is into value, and that is the reason I havent jumped on a new bike.

With all that said, can you either talk me off the ledge and let me know I DONT need a more expensive bike to get to Kona or help me decide if I should get a new bike and sell the old one, or get a new frame and swap over the upgrades.

These are my last fitting numbers. I am fine with the fit. I am told I have short legs and long torso (at 5'6" this isnt saying much). But I have very little idea what these numbers mean in terms of which bike would be best. My fitter said I am maxed out on my current bike and per this fit, could even be 5cm lower on the front (this sounds a bit much).

Saddle: PS 1.0
Nose down 4.8*
Cradle width 170mm center
Extension width 50mm center
Saddle nose to extension 815
Crank 160mm
SX: 125 (center of rails)
SY: 617 (center of rails)
HX: 443 (back of pad)
HY: 561 (top of pad)

Thanks!

I sold a brand new 2019 P5 and bought an older P3 frame to build up

Happy I did
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Just replying to say damn that’s a sweet setup, well done! I’m still running the original stock aluminum Vision base bar on mine. Haven’t seen p3c’s posted in while, after seeing yours I’m feeling inspired to do a couple final upgrades on mine. Maybe new base bar and add a tririg stem to really clean up the front end.
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [Dufflite] [ In reply to ]
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Don't count out doing the top tube cable mod also. If you have the ability to replace derailleur cables and swap a cockpit, you can do the mod. Definitely helps with cleanliness, even if you're only running 1x like I was.

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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Have thought about drilling the top tube, but a couple zip ties actually do a really good job of keeping the derailleur cables out of the front wind. Normally have another tie to keep the rear brake cable up a bit higher behind the base bar. That said, if I’m going to add a tririg stem for the super bike front end effect I think I’d have to go all in and get out the drill. Would just feel wrong not to finish it off properly lol.





Last edited by: Dufflite: Dec 8, 20 6:12
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Re: Do I need to upgrade from my 2012 Cervelo P3C? [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Dang this is awesome. Well done!
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