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Re: Middle distance duathlon the hardest race at Challenge Daytona? [Dudaddy]
[ In reply to ]
I'm a bike racer. Not multisport. I run for cross training. I decided to attempt our local du a couple years back, none this year due to Covid.
I do time trial. It hurts, but that du was probably the most pain in a race I'd been in. It was 5k 30k 5k. So, a bit of a runner's advantage, but whatever. I crossed the line on the second run and everything hurt and locked up. Everything. The first 5k wasn't that bad. The first half of the bike leg felt good to stretch the legs from the run. The second half of the bike leg and the second run.........worst ever.
I've thrown up during a cyclocross race before, and that hurt less than doing that duathlon.
So, I could see that hurting at Daytona. I think the longer you can extend the really painful duration efforts in threshold......without making it long enough you get out of that zone.......it can be brutal.
I do time trial. It hurts, but that du was probably the most pain in a race I'd been in. It was 5k 30k 5k. So, a bit of a runner's advantage, but whatever. I crossed the line on the second run and everything hurt and locked up. Everything. The first 5k wasn't that bad. The first half of the bike leg felt good to stretch the legs from the run. The second half of the bike leg and the second run.........worst ever.
I've thrown up during a cyclocross race before, and that hurt less than doing that duathlon.
So, I could see that hurting at Daytona. I think the longer you can extend the really painful duration efforts in threshold......without making it long enough you get out of that zone.......it can be brutal.
Re: Middle distance duathlon the hardest race at Challenge Daytona? [Dudaddy]
[ In reply to ]
Arguably the physically hardest race at Daytona this past weekend was the middle distance duathlon.
5k run/ 56 mile bike/ 21k run.
Cuss and discuss at your leisure. :)
That's crazy!
I've heard it said that the Standard Duathlon Race Distance of 10krun/40Kbike/5krun is one of the hardest and most difficult races to do - if you are REALLY trying to race it.
I do recall doing a few a long time ago myself. Running a really hard 10k, destroyed my legs so much that it took me almost 20k on the bike to really find my cycling legs and then by the time I reached the final 5k, my legs were in complete knots by the accumulated effort. - I'm not sure how I got through that final 17 mins or so of running! It felt like forever!
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
5k run/ 56 mile bike/ 21k run.
Cuss and discuss at your leisure. :)
That's crazy!
I've heard it said that the Standard Duathlon Race Distance of 10krun/40Kbike/5krun is one of the hardest and most difficult races to do - if you are REALLY trying to race it.
I do recall doing a few a long time ago myself. Running a really hard 10k, destroyed my legs so much that it took me almost 20k on the bike to really find my cycling legs and then by the time I reached the final 5k, my legs were in complete knots by the accumulated effort. - I'm not sure how I got through that final 17 mins or so of running! It felt like forever!
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: Middle distance duathlon the hardest race at Challenge Daytona? [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Fleck wrote:
Arguably the physically hardest race at Daytona this past weekend was the middle distance duathlon. 5k run/ 56 mile bike/ 21k run.
Cuss and discuss at your leisure. :)
That's crazy!
I've heard it said that the Standard Duathlon Race Distance of 10krun/40Kbike/5krun is one of the hardest and most difficult races to do - if you are REALLY trying to race it.
I do recall doing a few a long time ago myself. Running a really hard 10k, destroyed my legs so much that it took me almost 20k on the bike to really find my cycling legs and then by the time I reached the final 5k, my legs were in complete knots by the accumulated effort. - I'm not sure how I got through that final 17 mins or so of running! It felt like forever!
I equate the feeling after an honestly raced 10k/40k/5k to how I felt after doing half iron tris.
Re: Middle distance duathlon the hardest race at Challenge Daytona? [Dudaddy]
[ In reply to ]
Definitely a tough race and the field was loaded up with great age-groupers.
But looking at the results and a lot of athletes I know from previous races and looking at their typical results, great as they may be, I'm not convinced that any of those three distances were accurate. I'm not trying to pee on anyone's parade, but I'm just not so sure about what I'm seeing.
Someone who raced is welcome to tell me that I'm wrong, if I am.
But looking at the results and a lot of athletes I know from previous races and looking at their typical results, great as they may be, I'm not convinced that any of those three distances were accurate. I'm not trying to pee on anyone's parade, but I'm just not so sure about what I'm seeing.
Someone who raced is welcome to tell me that I'm wrong, if I am.
Re: Middle distance duathlon the hardest race at Challenge Daytona? [DieselPete]
[ In reply to ]
It seems all the races the distances were a tad short.
Re: Middle distance duathlon the hardest race at Challenge Daytona? [Dudaddy]
[ In reply to ]
I should add, I've done races (du and tri) that are short. "Miles" that have been .75 to .85, bike legs that are 52 miles, "13.1" runs that are 12.5 to 12.8.
The athletes aren't responsible for laying out a course. They are just going to bust their asses to get around the course as fast as they can and to do so faster than other people. I take nothing away from any of the competitors. I'm sure they buried themselves to earn their results.
The athletes aren't responsible for laying out a course. They are just going to bust their asses to get around the course as fast as they can and to do so faster than other people. I take nothing away from any of the competitors. I'm sure they buried themselves to earn their results.
Re: Middle distance duathlon the hardest race at Challenge Daytona? [Dudaddy]
[ In reply to ]
I've never raced a duathlon longer than a 5-20-2.5 sprint. Nonetheless, I will suggest that non-drafting races (such as Daytona) may not be as bad as draft-legal ones.
With no drafting, you can afford to pace yourself. Adjust the intensity to the duration of the effort. This means you can race a sprint at about threshold intensity (as long as it takes you approximately an hour to complete the race), and a middle distance duathlon at tempo, maybe subthreshold. If the others sprint off the start line, so be it. You'll catch them on the bike.
Draft-legal races... people complete the first run close to their open run PB. It's crazy. They spend a good part of the bike resting, and whatever comes after that must be very very painful. But there is no other choice if you want to be competitive, because you can't let the group run away from you before the bike.
"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
With no drafting, you can afford to pace yourself. Adjust the intensity to the duration of the effort. This means you can race a sprint at about threshold intensity (as long as it takes you approximately an hour to complete the race), and a middle distance duathlon at tempo, maybe subthreshold. If the others sprint off the start line, so be it. You'll catch them on the bike.
Draft-legal races... people complete the first run close to their open run PB. It's crazy. They spend a good part of the bike resting, and whatever comes after that must be very very painful. But there is no other choice if you want to be competitive, because you can't let the group run away from you before the bike.
"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Re: Middle distance duathlon the hardest race at Challenge Daytona? [kajet]
[ In reply to ]
kajet wrote:
I've never raced a duathlon longer than a 5-20-2.5 sprint. Nonetheless, I will suggest that non-drafting races (such as Daytona) may not be as bad as draft-legal ones. With no drafting, you can afford to pace yourself. Adjust the intensity to the duration of the effort. This means you can race a sprint at about threshold intensity (as long as it takes you approximately an hour to complete the race), and a middle distance duathlon at tempo, maybe subthreshold. If the others sprint off the start line, so be it. You'll catch them on the bike.
Draft-legal races... people complete the first run close to their open run PB. It's crazy. They spend a good part of the bike resting, and whatever comes after that must be very very painful. But there is no other choice if you want to be competitive, because you can't let the group run away from you before the bike.
I prefer when no drafting and the "legs" of the race distance wise are fair. I'm not signing up if all the bike leg is meant to be is a "distraction" to the local 5k runners. Why bother with the bike. Just hold a 5k or 10k run race instead.
The race is good if neither a pure runner or pure cyclist can win simply because of the leg distances. Run pace is purely 1:1. Bike pace is not. Best if a duathlete wins. Not a runner, not a cyclist.
Re: Middle distance duathlon the hardest race at Challenge Daytona? [burnthesheep]
[ In reply to ]
burnthesheep wrote:
kajet wrote:
I've never raced a duathlon longer than a 5-20-2.5 sprint. Nonetheless, I will suggest that non-drafting races (such as Daytona) may not be as bad as draft-legal ones. With no drafting, you can afford to pace yourself. Adjust the intensity to the duration of the effort. This means you can race a sprint at about threshold intensity (as long as it takes you approximately an hour to complete the race), and a middle distance duathlon at tempo, maybe subthreshold. If the others sprint off the start line, so be it. You'll catch them on the bike.
Draft-legal races... people complete the first run close to their open run PB. It's crazy. They spend a good part of the bike resting, and whatever comes after that must be very very painful. But there is no other choice if you want to be competitive, because you can't let the group run away from you before the bike.
I prefer when no drafting and the "legs" of the race distance wise are fair. I'm not signing up if all the bike leg is meant to be is a "distraction" to the local 5k runners. Why bother with the bike. Just hold a 5k or 10k run race instead.
The race is good if neither a pure runner or pure cyclist can win simply because of the leg distances. Run pace is purely 1:1. Bike pace is not. Best if a duathlete wins. Not a runner, not a cyclist.
Many many moons ago it was deemed that a 3:1 ratio bike to run was metabolically equivalent thats why the "original" duathlon distance of 5k/30k/5k was decided upon. Powerman middle distance still adheres to this at 10k/60k/10k.
The new "standard distance" of 10k/40k/5k is slightly advantageous to runners.