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What are your tips for getting faster with running?
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On Thanksgiving, I did a 10k time trial, and I was pleasantly surprised with my time.

I rarely run 10k's, in fact the last one I did was another Turkey Trot three years ago.

My 10k three years ago I ran a 48:34 (7:49/mile). My 10k this year I ran a 38:16 (6:10/mile).

I actually started running again about four years ago, after a twelve year hiatus (due to work, kids, life). My first run back, I ran a 12:30/mile holding a z1 HR. Now I'm running about a 7:40/mile pace at the same effort. I have followed the 80/20 principle, which is 80% of the runs are in z1/z2, and 20% or the runs are in z4+. I'm not sure if that's been the difference so much as just establishing a huge base, but it's worked out so far. As usual, I made a video about my time trial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WudWvaUT0c).

I'm just wondering, what method(s) have you all used in order to get faster in running?
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [brunes83] [ In reply to ]
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If you are just talking running, and not tri running, than Lydiard.

EOT
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [brunes83] [ In reply to ]
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I use Frodeno’s method for running

Run faster

Strava
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [brunes83] [ In reply to ]
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Run more. doesnt need to be more complicated than that
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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SnowChicken wrote:
Run more. doesnt need to be more complicated than that

Not according to Daniels, Noakes or Sellier
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [SnowChicken] [ In reply to ]
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SnowChicken wrote:
Run more. doesnt need to be more complicated than that

I agree, volume is important. In 2019, I ran about 20 miles per week (I would have run more, but with biking and swimming, that's all the time I had). 2020, I have run almost 30 miles per week. I credit my pace increase with getting more volume under my legs. However, my increase in volume was easy miles (z1, z2 stuff).
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [brunes83] [ In reply to ]
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25 years of varying levels of success and ROI with almost ALL of the "schools of thought" or training plans, my recommendation is to drop the $14 and pick up Pete Magill's book "Fast 5K". I'd just select the "tempo" options for the plan and it will be very effective for 10K, provided you get your mileage up over say 50MPW. It is by far the best distillation of proven ideas related to running I've ever seen, presented in a format that won't leave you scratching your head trying to decode like Daniels, Vigil or Lyniard's stuff can. I found it to contain the prefect amount of breadth and depth to build a realistic plan that fit nicely into a life that does not revolve around training. My only regret is not having access to his body of work 15 years ago and having to train around old man considerations for mileage and intensity limits now... BTW I have zero association with Pete or Velopress.
Last edited by: Mike Sharkey: Dec 4, 20 12:02
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [brunes83] [ In reply to ]
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run more, lose weight, run faster...problem solved.
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [Mike Sharkey] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the good reference, I'll definitely read it. To be clear, I'm not interested in getting faster at 10k's or anything shorter. I'm more interested in getting better in long distance races (e.g., half marathons and longer). This is because I'm mostly focused and getting faster for HIMs and IMs. However, I usually train for one marathon a year in hopes for finally achieving that elusive sub-3 marathon.
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [brunes83] [ In reply to ]
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Hills reps,,,Hilly runs...Treadmill speedwork.
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [brunes83] [ In reply to ]
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Neuromuscular intervals once a week.

An example session:
15min w/u

Main set (7.5min), repeat 4-12 times. Use a flat route.
4x(30s FAST, 60s easy)
90s easy

5-15min cool down.
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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I'm experimenting with running 3 days a week but working up to 5 times - basically one day of intervals like yours (right now I'm doing 60 on/60 off but those will change throughout the year), one with some tempo intervals (right now with hard hill reps or a hard mile uphill to start), and a long run. The other two will be easy runs.

So far, so good - I was always a 5-7 day a week runner while training but injury and now almost 46 - trying to see if I can get those improvements without running consecutive days. Haven't run a race yet (covid 15 as been holding me back a bit haha) but starting to feel stronger and relatively fast at times!

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
run more, lose weight, run faster...problem solved.

I lost too much weight resulting in muscle loss and bone fractures, making me slower...


http://www.coupleofathletes.com
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
Neuromuscular intervals once a week.

An example session:
15min w/u

Main set (7.5min), repeat 4-12 times. Use a flat route.
4x(30s FAST, 60s easy)
90s easy

5-15min cool down.

Definitely agree with this approach. Like OP, finally cracked the sub 3 barrier this year and what worked for me was incorporating neormuscular strides/sprints/hill reps into otherwise easy runs, as my stride is not naturally fast or efficient. I also had one VO2 max session of short track intervals (1k or less) with progressively longer distances and shorter reps, and used those to focus on cadence and stride power. I did very little tempo/threshold work on the run (other than practicing some race pace in 2 long runs), and instead used the bike to push up my threshold since that's much less taxing on the body (primarily did 2x/week over/unders and long intervals right above threshold).
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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Not according to Daniels, Noakes or Sellier

If you mean Stephen Seiler, the base of his hierarchy of endurance training needs is volume. Everyone focuses on his talk of polarized training and seem to miss how often he talks about how important volume is and that the best simply do more.
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [Supersquid] [ In reply to ]
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Yes he does say how important volume is and it's the highest on his list contributing to running abilities, but it's not the only thing on his list.
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
run more, lose weight, run faster...problem solved.


I lost too much weight resulting in muscle loss and bone fractures, making me slower...

This is not the problem of 99.9% of athletes on this forum or on the start line of any marathon. This MAY apply to 1 out of 1000 runners. There is another thread you can start for the roughly 1/1000 (or less, I picked that number out of the air) from the general population for whom this is a concern
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [brunes83] [ In reply to ]
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In 2014 I ran my first marathon. I did it in 3:38 and Was very disappointed in my time, I spent the winter trying to get faster. This is what I did.

1 work out per week focused on biomechanics. Including box jumps, strides etc.

1 work out/week intervals

1 work out per week tempo

1 fasted 7mi trail run (it made sense at the time)

In between 3x6k recovery runs per week.

By the spring my weight was hitting 60kg which is unhealthy for me but I lost 7min on my 5k. I didn't run another marathon as my daughter came along and 3hour long runs felt selfish.
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [brunes83] [ In reply to ]
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My comments about running/racing/training

https://beginnertriathlete.com/...l.asp?articleid=2640
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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dtoce wrote:
My comments about running/racing/training

https://beginnertriathlete.com/...l.asp?articleid=2640

That's a TON of information for beginner triathlete...

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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Well, it is a ‘dissertation’. 😉
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
synthetic wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
run more, lose weight, run faster...problem solved.


I lost too much weight resulting in muscle loss and bone fractures, making me slower...

This is not the problem of 99.9% of athletes on this forum or on the start line of any marathon. This MAY apply to 1 out of 1000 runners. There is another thread you can start for the roughly 1/1000 (or less, I picked that number out of the air) from the general population for whom this is a concern

While I pretty much never agree with synthetic he does make a point that more isn’t always better when it comes to weight loss. And just because his advice may not apply to the majority of people reading doesn’t mean it isn’t useful to include. I’d say it’s just as useful as your advice.

Also, if we are talking about female athletes (which are pretty much always forgotten about on this forum), it is way more common than 1 out of 1000 who are at risk for this. When I ran cross country we had a few women on the team who were on the team and ended up with health issues while continuing to try and get lighter and lighter as they thought lighter always meant faster.

Matt
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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I said 1/1000 in the general population not 1/1000 on a female running sqaud. The latter is already 1/1000th out of the general population (add up all women competitive runners and divide by 3.75B woman humans and you have your math).

The thread was a general question. Of course telling Eliud Kipchoge to run more, lose weight and run faster won't work too. He is already body composition, volume and speed optimized. For people at that pointy end, the answers are more nuanced as is the advice for the women'a cross country team at your NCAA div 1 school.

But that is not 999/1000 or more in the general population. Even if you get on the start line in Boston with 35,000 people at least 34500 are not body composition optimized to run their fastest possible marathon (and that is Ok...there is more to life than being marathon lean)....I have been top 1000 in Boston and lots of people around who would be faster being leaner.

Sadly this is part of being fast. There is a tipping point for everyone where they also break. There is also a lot of messed up psychology that comes with trying to get fast at running but that's another topic
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Re: What are your tips for getting faster with running? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Yea Paul yours an effective and reasonable plan ...run a bunch and get optimally skinny. That is prolly the best advice one can receive . Oh and the other thing is to not get old. Old age seems to slow folks down.

I swam at 185lbs in college with just under 10% body fat. After swimming I raced bikes at 175 and still just under 10%. I was never a good climber but did fairly well in TT events. Started running and every 5 lbs weight (muscle and fat) I lost, I just got faster and faster. Got down to 155lbs and right at 5% body fat. I was running average 60miles a week with a high of 97 miles (always wanted to run a few 100mile weeks as that is what the big boys were running in the 1970s early 80s).

Never quite made it to the 100 miles but I was getting colds and flu about every other month. I cut back to 40 miles a week, let my body fat hover around 8%, weight in the low 160s and ran almost as fast without ever being sick. I know the numbers are correct as the body fats were hydrostatic weighings and cross checked with skin fold calipers in a University lab.

It is hard to get skinny and harder to stay that way. But if you are going to reach your ultimate run potential there better be some ribs showing.
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