But appreciate RBDs general concern about relative income ...maybe pitch Futterman a story about the working class pro who is really working hard and creatively to make it work?


That would be Cody Beals.

He stepped off into the deep-end 7 years ago, and has been quite open about his whole process - even documenting with spread-sheets, about how the whole business/professional side of it worked or did not work for him. How he was pragmatic, and stuck with it and now, after that 7 year journey he can kind of exhale a bit, knowing that he has built up a business, that is all about him - because that's what being a Professional Athlete in an individual sport like triathlon is all about.

I've interviewed Cody several times, and what has always struck me about him is that pragmatism - it's worked out well for him. Look he's not driving a Mercedes around, but he's now earning a good solid and sustainable income from his chosen sport!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Just a thought, the NBA, WTA, and most other top sports orgs that run pro sports don't run amateur events along with pro events. I don't think ASO even does that for cycling, right? So we can't really compare the IM situation to any other sport aside from what... marathons? even then, IAAF/USATF etc don't get involved in much more beyond the pro part of the race. it is a very unique dynamic that makes it hard to be compared to any other sport.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I've participated in niche sports my whole life (cross-country, rowing, triathlon, marathon, road cycling, track cycling), and over that time have had zero hand-wringing because Lebron gets all the attention. (granted I was pro/elite for almost none of that)


I don't either.

When I'm Commentating or Announcing, in running, track & field, cycling or triathlon, THE MOST exciting sport is going on in right front of me - and if it's not terribly exciting or interesting at the time, I try and make it more exciting and interesting!

The two best and most exciting sports-moments for me have been the men's 100m final at the 2018 and 2019 Canadian Track & Field Championships. I was the Stadium Announcer for both. The 2018 Final saw 7 of the 8 finalists all cross the line, almost as one! It was wild and crazy! It took forever ( 2 - 3 minutes which seems like forever in those moments) to sort out the photo finish and figure out the places. In 2018 it was a big showdown between Aaron Brown and Andre deGrasse. Brown got the much better start and deGrasse tracked him down the whole race, and then right at the line - an absolutely no difference photo-finish that again, seemed to take forever to resolve!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I for one love long form sports... golf majors, America's Cup sailing, Game 7 of the World Series, whatever, I watched it. If done right it can be compelling. I'm told Nordic countries have some high production long form stuff but I can't remember offhand which sport. IOW, long form sports aren't boring/unprofitable because they're long, it's because they're poorly done.

IMO the Hawaii IM coverage peaked when they had a video stream but no commentary and you watched while getting your commentary on ST and Twitter.

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

The problem IMO is when the governing body turns into a corporation, and the previously sustainable niche sport becomes a mass participation echo chamber. The corporation shifts to becoming an event promoter, and then eventually shifts to becoming a social media content farm.

No different than any other extraction model in any business.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

The guy in charge of running it, Chris Kermode (I think) was interviewed on IMTalk a while ago. He said then that TV coverage was not a priority, and to be successful, they have a long term plan of growth. That starts with getting the top pros together and finding a race format that works.

He's the guy who built the ATP for tennis, and that seems to have done fairly well - very well, in fact.

The interview was good, and answers a lot of questions on this thread.

That would likely be cross country skiing. E.g. Vasaloppet here in Sweden is a cross country race (90K) with pros (maybe a hundered, ~10-20 with a chance to win) and amateurs (aprox. 15 000) in the same race. I.e. not too different from a long distance triathlon but for size. For the pros it takes about 4 hours, the last of the amateurs come in after about 12 hours. TV-coverage on national tv is live from 7.30 am to 8 pm. First mostly focusing on the pro-races (men/women), then with that race finished, on the amatuers. It makes good tv, watching it is a tradition. About 20% of Swedes watch at least some of the broadcast. Would be surprised if Birkebeinerrennet in Norway isn't similiar, probably even higher watcher numbers.

I gotta that the new distance of this series is a huge improvement over IM, both for athletes and for spectators.

1.2-mile swim / 48-mile bike / 13.1 mile run sounds downright body-friendly. And sponsor friendly too. I can only imagine the speeds that will be achieved at this much shorter distance. And it seems like there could be a lot more athletes from the ITU circuit that could come over and excel at these kind of distances.

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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1.2-mile swim / 48-mile bike / 13.1 mile run sounds downright body-friendly.
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So, you're saying that the extra 8 miles (~20-25 min) on the bike takes a huge hit on the body? Forcing people race at a significantly slower pace/ intensity?

It seems to me that the 70.3 IM branded distance is nearly the same as this 'new' format. On that front the WTC could easily adapt their 70.3 series to compete for eyes. I'm happy that there is a potential for corporate competition. I suspect that this current potential is being driven by the covid shutdown and this venue's willingness to host a race. I'm curious to see how well it plays out in a non-pandemic year.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Agree.

No, I am comparing these distances to an IM-distance race.
Which is VASTLY less spectator friendly and also much, much harder on frequent racers (i.e., pros trying to make a living)


But I also like these distances much more the the 70.3, because it favors swimming and running slightly more.

I think the olympic distance ratio is a sweet spot for balanced 3 sport competition.

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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Fixed it. I don’t really know but I don’t at all think of pro triathletes as spoiled 1%ers.

Some of them definitely are.

I don't think the Ironman or the PTO have any desire to fund production to the point of the events you describe. Production for Kona or any of the other IM events that they broadcast on Ironman Live is not cheap. To be at the level of a Golf Major or a World Series game is a significant hurdle for a sport that hasn't demonstrated an appetite for broadcast consumption. When you look at the numbers, clearly not enough people watch Kona or the race on IM Live.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Quote:

I think your NBA comparison is excessive, though. The point isn't to reach NBA-grade money. It's to get a small fraction of what Lebron *alone* makes feeding back to all pros so it's a viable way to make a living.

Recently listened to PTO head on podcast share a comparable target for long course tri = the LPGA in terms of the amount of money flowing through it. That's where they felt they could get it to, and that's why they had venture folks making the investments they were making.

Here's what that might mean for purses/ money list....

Typical purse:
https://thegolfnewsnet.com/...distribution-105122/

Lpga money list:
https://www.lpga.com/statistics/money/official-money

Especially because they have this incredibly odd “Donate to charity and we’ll send you a top-secret coverage link” format. It is like they actively want to discourage casual viewers.

I’m motivated to check it out, so I’ll do it, but it does seem to be a strange strategy.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

I think you’re not hearing me. I’m not talking about money. The production “values” are high because the people who produce them actually like the sport they are broadcasting and are connected to the fans of the sport and resonate with the things that happen in the slower timeframe. It’s different.

They don’t try to be something they’re not. Lean into the skid.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Then why have they tied their previous Collins Cup location and this to a mass participation race?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I think it’s super interesting to see this article.

Notable to me is that while a lot of knowledgeable triathletes might be critical of some details in this article ... and they’d be correct. I think it is still a home run for exposure for PTO and Challenge. Just my opinion.

This article shows that the organization got main stream media coverage in a worldwide publication on the day before their big event. The timing of this article was almost definitely not an accident. Kudos to the PR team.

I think streaming has changed TV - sponsor relationships - forever. That’s a guess. People have in the past speculated that an oversized chunk of WTC revenue might have from the NBC broadcast deal which .... who knows what the status of that is or what it’s worth anymore. I don’t know.

The impact of the partnership between the speedways as venues and Challenge - PTO isn’t really known yet. But I think it might be huge. It allows them to dramatically reduce the expense of closing roads which is kind of a big thing. We’ll see. Maybe it will grow ... maybe it will flop.

The pro pay issue is complicated and influenced by lots of things. I don’t fully understand it or have a solution idea. I personally think it’s possible the pro racing scene could change in format dramatically and we might not see as much change for amateurs. But I don’t know.

It seems to me (as an bystander with no pro experience or connection) that without a clearly defined path to progress and the potential to make a decent living as a pro triathlete there’s not much incentive to do it. How much does that matter to the sport for weekend warriors like me? I dunno.

I thought that the niche sport championship example in the article (I think it was darts) was more relevant than the comparison to tennis. It is tough for me to compare a financial viability model where spectators buy tickets to one where they don’t.

And those are my long and rambling thoughts on this. :-)