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Off road riding skill development
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Anyone have an experience, good or bad, with the online mountain bike skills development sites like the one from Ryan Leech or LeeLikesBikes? Any others?

I looked at the free content on youtube, and that seems OK, but I'm not opposed to testing out a subscription for a few months.

Most of my outside cycling time this year has been on the mountain bike and I'm the least skilled rider of my small group. While just riding around with good cyclists helps, I'm thinking of trying some thing more focused on my own. For example, if I could better lift my front wheel, that would be great for getting over logs. Or even more fundamental aspects of corning and what not.

I'm in new England and ride an epic comp 29er from a few years back.
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Re: Off road riding skill development [MadisonGuy] [ In reply to ]
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I don't have experience with those sites, but I really like the Youtube channel Kyle & April - Ride MTB because they go into the basics. If you're a book person, Mastering Mountain Bike Skills by Lee McCormack is excellent and covers pretty much every aspect of MTB, from equipment choice to advanced riding skills.

I mountain bike a lot in the off season, and two things that helped me improve are (1) wearing full protective gear and (2) "sessioning." I have more confidence to try new stuff and push myself when wearing a full face helmet, elbow pads, and knee pads. In case you aren't familiar, "sessioning" simply means trying the same section over and over again at least a few times to get better at it.
Last edited by: dktxracer: Nov 29, 20 13:00
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Re: Off road riding skill development [dktxracer] [ In reply to ]
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I did some sessioning with a friend of mine to help him out. It was a 2.5 mile section of a twisty trail. We would do 2-3 laps of that then 2-3 laps of another section.

You see the same stuff several times and learn different lines around it/them.
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Re: Off road riding skill development [MadisonGuy] [ In reply to ]
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I think that the online technique workshops are a great place to start and Ryan Leech’s program seems very well structured. That’s the one I’d go with if I were going that route.

One-on-one sessions or focused group skills sessions are the most ideal of course as you’ll get objective, expert real time feedback. Naturally this is highly dependent on where you live and whether there’s anyone qualified nearby. Even so, an online session might give you a leg up on training in the meantime.

Riding with buddies isn’t always the best place to learn but it’s where you’ll practice your new skills under load as it were. I take advice from riding buddies with a grain of salt, but even non-professionals sometimes know a thing or two ;)

Kiwami NA Racing Team
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Re: Off road riding skill development [MadisonGuy] [ In reply to ]
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 I don't know much (anything) about online courses, but since you're in new england honing your skills is a good idea because the trails tend to be more technical. you talk about learning to better lift the front wheel for logs, a youtube video can try and explain the millisecond by millisecond movements in a bunnyhop, but there is no substitute for just getting out there and working on it in a repetitive way. maybe take a couple days just to ride around your house/playground/park etc, looking for obstacle or features to practice on, and do it 50 times. find a 6 inch curb and hop up, each time getting faster. as you get faster you will have to adapt lifting the rear wheel as well, lest you smash it on the curb. a video can explain that you need to preload the fork, but actually feeling and timing it at different speeds is essential. i know that sounds basic buy the payoff is worth it. other things to work on to build speed is learning how to keep your momentum. momentum is key for almost any technical feature. learning when to brake (and more importantly how to stay off the brakes) is a key skill. riding a singlespeed will also build this skill. last bit of advice is only gained through lots of experience, and that is knowing how to choose a line. you want to get to the point where you instantaneously know the right line, more like reflex than a conscious thought. racing will force you to learn this skill.
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Re: Off road riding skill development [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
I did some sessioning with a friend of mine to help him out. It was a 2.5 mile section of a twisty trail. We would do 2-3 laps of that then 2-3 laps of another section.

You see the same stuff several times and learn different lines around it/them.

This is excellent advice and will build on by doing the following:

Shock rebound - while doing these sessions change the settings. Take notes on your phone. I was at a class once bouncing all over the freaking place and a fellow ride told me to adjust the rebound. Next lap, killed it.

Tire pressure - same as above.



I miss you "Sports Night"
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Re: Off road riding skill development [dktxracer] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks - That Youtube channel looks like a great place for me to start.

I've tried going back through a section before - didn't know doing that had a name - but it's never been a major focus of a ride, more like, "let's try that one more time and then keep moving"
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Re: Off road riding skill development [Quo Vadimus] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting on the suspension aspects - I've only just started to play around with those setting despite riding the bike for awhile.
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Re: Off road riding skill development [jflan] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you. I agree on practicing a single, even seemingly simple, skill around my house - which is what I'm looking to do - though not totally sure on what to start with. Hence my thought to find some kind of progression (in a book or on the internet).

Right now my mountain biking feels like my swimming did five years ago. I was putting time in and not getting better. Then found a group/coach that worked for me and developed an understanding of how to practice. Over several years I made major improvements.

Now, with mountain biking, I've been out riding this fall and have had fun, though I don't really think I'm any more (or much more) skilled at the sport. I've had fun, but as a goal oriented person, I'd like to see more improvement.
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Re: Off road riding skill development [MadisonGuy] [ In reply to ]
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The TrainerRoad guys swear by Lee McCormack. They also like his rip row machine.

Let food be thy medicine...
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Re: Off road riding skill development [MadisonGuy] [ In reply to ]
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I took the 2 day in person course with Ninja MTB and it helped a lot. Having an extra set of eyes to tell you what you're doing wrong helps a ton. My cornering improved immediately.

You probably can't session too much. I mean leave the GPS at home and work a challenge section until you nail it every time.
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Re: Off road riding skill development [MadisonGuy] [ In reply to ]
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I grew up on a BMX bike and raced BMX as a kid for many years. Moving to mountain bike wasn’t too tough as bike handling skills were there, but bigger wheels took getting use to. Now, 34 years later from my first BMX race, if anything I lack the desire to be dangerous as I don’t like getting hurt. I’m a cross country mountain biker and the downhill stuff or riding logs or bouncing over large rock gardens on couples pedals isn’t really something I desire. I decided my fun level isn’t higher by doing more sketchy sections of a trail.

Anyhow, I can explain many fundamentals on the bike if you like. Send me a PM if you want, or reply to this thread with specifics and I’ll answer.

FYI- I also ride an Epic. Great bike.
Last edited by: jharris: Nov 29, 20 21:08
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Re: Off road riding skill development [Quo Vadimus] [ In reply to ]
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Quo Vadimus wrote:
jaretj wrote:
I did some sessioning with a friend of mine to help him out. It was a 2.5 mile section of a twisty trail. We would do 2-3 laps of that then 2-3 laps of another section.

You see the same stuff several times and learn different lines around it/them.


This is excellent advice and will build on by doing the following:

Shock rebound - while doing these sessions change the settings. Take notes on your phone. I was at a class once bouncing all over the freaking place and a fellow ride told me to adjust the rebound. Next lap, killed it.

Tire pressure - same as above.

Back in the late 90’s a friend and I would ride the skinniest tires we could and highest pressure, like a 1.9 at 60 psi. We would slide all over the damn trail and thought we were flying. Years later, I’m running 2.4 tires front and rear and 22 psi front and 25 psi rear. Lol.
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Re: Off road riding skill development [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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hah that is the truth. i remember the days of 26 inch wheels, 1.9 tires @ 40psi ( i was a lightweight) and pogostick shocks. i actually fell out of love with mtb around 2000 for exactly those reasons. it just wasn't fun getting bounced everywhere. fast forward 20 years and now we have droppers, tubeless, and suspension that actually work. line choice isn't as important, especially if you are on a trail bike with >140mm suspension. you can ride things that were literally impossible 20 yrs ago. that being said, OP should still focus on actual skills and bikehandling rather than relying on new tech to get by with sloppy riding. (but dont neglect getting a proper set up, it makes it much better!)
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Re: Off road riding skill development [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
I did some sessioning with a friend of mine to help him out. It was a 2.5 mile section of a twisty trail. We would do 2-3 laps of that then 2-3 laps of another section.

You see the same stuff several times and learn different lines around it/them.
This is really important. Doing at least some stuff repeating and learning from that.


http://www.jt10000.com/
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Re: Off road riding skill development [MadisonGuy] [ In reply to ]
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For at home or close to home stuff you can set up some cones on a slightly downhill grassy area. That way you can visualize the preturn (S turn) and apex without worrying about roots and rocks. You can play with the spacing of the cones and change the entrance and exit angles. Use a different color cone to tag an apex then move it forward and backward in the turn to see how it feels. Use another cone placed at the exit to help you practice spotting the exit as early as possible. Most people get dropped on climbs and corners so an afternoon practicing cornering goes a long way.

For getting over a log sometime the risk/reward doesn't pan out. If it's a small log then getting the wheel up is good but momentum is probably the deciding factor. After all you've got to have enough juice to keep from banging the crankset on the log even after the front wheel is on it.
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Re: Off road riding skill development [MadisonGuy] [ In reply to ]
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Nothing new to add but here goes anyway:
-The Lee McCormack material is helpful. I've purchased of his books and attended his basic one day skills clinic.
-Repeatedly ride sections of trail that challenge you. View them as physical puzzles.
-Race cyclocross. Riding hard sections over and over while watching others do the same will ramp up your skill improvement.
-There is a lot of good info on the internet - not just Lee Likes Bikes.
-Ride with others whenever you can.
-My biggest jump in ability happened over the course of an informal short course race. Laps were less than 2 minutes.
-MTB is not the same are riding a road bike. You basically sit and pedal road bikes. You do not simply sit and pedal a MTB. Your ride a MTB.
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Re: Off road riding skill development [MadisonGuy] [ In reply to ]
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Truth be told what you probably need is for someone to watch you perform basic skills (e.g. manual) and give you feedback. Watching videos of the skills only goes so far. It’s rare for people to have perfect proprioception so there’s a good chance you think you’re doing X when you’re really doing Y and watching more videos that say “do X”... subscription or not... won’t help.

With that said, check out Skills with Phil. He has some really creative drills you can do in your backyard or a local parking lot. Helped my cornering immensely.
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Re: Off road riding skill development [MadisonGuy] [ In reply to ]
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Alot of great things have already been said, but two big ones are

-Look ahead, and not right in front of you. Look where you want to go, and your body will naturally make it happen.

-When cornering, outside pedal down and put pressure on it, inside pedal up. This will help you to be able to learn the bike in further and have a tighter turning radius. You can practice this in parking lots first.

Also, its important to be patient and gradually try harder features without jumping right into the hard stuff. A bad crash early on can mess w your confidence.

Time on the bike is the best way to improve your technical skills. Have fun riding, and the skills will come. We were all bad when we started!
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